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Waffleking
11-14-2014, 03:21 PM
NEW BATTLE CALCULATIONS AND HERO ITEM STATS

With the addition of Hero Equip we have made additions to the items that you take into battle with you. Army units now bring in one of each of the new equipment types as well as your hero bringing in their gear as well.

In the past all of these items were thrown into one pot which made weapon and armor items worth less as their total power was a fraction of a percent to that of a single army unit.

The new battle calculation compares like amounts to each other instead of putting everything in one bucket. Armies vs Armies, Army Equipment vs Army Equipment, and Hero vs Hero. This means that hero equipment stats, while still well under 100, are actually just as powerful as a unit with a power 100,000 or more. However, armies are still the majority of the battle outcome calculation in order to not take away from the large armies that players have built over the years.

A second addition to the battle calculation is that both players attack and defend. This gives importance to both stats, where in the past players really only cared about building attack at a higher rate as well as simulating an actual battle. This may have an affect on the players that you are now able to successfully attack, while your attack may be higher than your defense they are actually more powerful than you in an overall battle.

Part of the reason that we have made these changes were to add depth and value to the new crafting feature. Allowing items that are not currently being used by your hero to be used by your armies in a meaningful way will not only allow players to craft more items over time but also extends the value of equipment that is replaced on your hero.

We will be holding an AMA next week to answer any other questions or concerns you might have with these new battle calculations and Hero Equipment.

the_bob
11-14-2014, 03:27 PM
This all makes sense, but throwing it at us out of the blue is the worst way you could have done this. You might call it a Rooster Move.

Lucas HQ
11-14-2014, 03:28 PM
maybe a little late with this message?

the_bob
11-14-2014, 03:33 PM
However, armies are still the majority of the battle outcome calculation in order to not take away from the large armies that players have built over the years.

I'd also like to know how you can possibly say this when I can lose to somebody with 1/10th my army stats if they happen to have better army and hero equipment than I do.

Lucas HQ
11-14-2014, 03:35 PM
so it's pure random? you can't determine anything, how is everything calculate for the end result (win/lose)?

Gendur
11-14-2014, 03:39 PM
so do you need to best the other player in 2 out of the 3 stats (army, ally, hero) ???????????????

FrostedHate
11-14-2014, 03:40 PM
Part of the reason that we have made these changes were to add depth and value to the new crafting feature. .

I think what you forgot to write there is that this will also impact your wins and losses in CoK and as a result in order to score more conquest points or even as many as you are used to you will need to give us (GREEd) more money to do so.

Jnsolberg
11-14-2014, 03:49 PM
So why weren't we told BEFORE the war?

This is the worst possible way to go about making a big change. It just goes to show that Gree is the least customer friendly company in the world. To tell us now, after people are getting frustrated, and are talking about leaving the game is terrible.

This also has the effect of all the money we threw away on this game worthless now. I spent a lot of time, money and effort to grow my games. And for what? Only to lose to someone with 25% of my stats?

What the heck were you thinking?

Silent follower
11-14-2014, 03:53 PM
NEW BATTLE CALCULATIONS AND HERO ITEM STATS
The new battle calculation compares like amounts to each other instead of putting everything in one bucket. Armies vs Armies, Army Equipment vs Army Equipment, and Hero vs Hero. This means that hero equipment stats, while still well under 100, are actually just as powerful as a unit with a power 100,000 or more. However, armies are still the majority of the battle outcome calculation in order to not take away from the large armies that players have built over the years.

A second addition to the battle calculation is that both players attack and defend. This gives importance to both stats, where in the past players really only cared about building attack at a higher rate as well as simulating an actual battle. This may have an affect on the players that you are now able to successfully attack, while your attack may be higher than your defense they are actually more powerful than you in an overall battle.

Are you saying that there is actually six different fights calculated, of which only three are shown? That would make it Impossible to really understand why you lost, as you only see partially the opponents details.

And what is the "majority of the battle outcome"? It can't be 50%+, as otherwise players wouldn't report here they've lost to players with 1/10th of their unit attack. if it would be 20%+20%, could you that a majority, as the rest of the six fights have all15% each, making them to be over half of the outcome.

ThorNatoth
11-14-2014, 03:58 PM
NEW BATTLE CALCULATIONS AND HERO ITEM STATS

The new battle calculation compares like amounts to each other instead of putting everything in one bucket. Armies vs Armies, Army Equipment vs Army Equipment, and Hero vs Hero.

A second addition to the battle calculation is that both players attack and defend.

We will be holding an AMA next week to answer any other questions or concerns you might have with these new battle calculations and Hero Equipment.

This is a war game. We build up stats to fight the wars. So it should be obvious to Never...NEVER change how wars are won/lost right before a huge war event.

Changes like this should only happen right after a war event so every player and guild has a chance to learn and adapt in time.

Reading this post after the war event is underway shows gree communication to players is BROKEN.
Whatever system is being used to time the release of updates is BROKEN.
Not catching major problems before the update is pushed out is BROKEN.

The players know its broken...the support team knows it's broken...the dev team is apolgizing and knows its broken...but for crying out loud don't just acknowledge it.... Find someone with the authority to fix what is broken before everyone quits.

Jnsolberg
11-14-2014, 04:09 PM
My older games, that worked the higher level maps for loot, back when level 200s didn't level up, are doing well, my newer games didn't work the maps for loot, and they are suffering. I want a refund on all the gems I bought building up my stats.
I know that won't happen, but you just made it clear to us that you don't care about your players at all.

I have loved this game for the last 2.75 years, but now I'm getting fed up.

truthteller
11-14-2014, 04:21 PM
WaffleKing

With all due respect, the new calculation is one really dumb idea Gree has implemented in the game

here is the reason why I think of that

1- stats vs stas is same as usual
2- equipment, now people have to buy/craft more or better equipment

3- the BIG issue, ALLIES............for almost everyone in top 500 to top 1........we all have the -"x"% alliance which means that when you attack a rival that rival will bring LESS allies to battle.........thus this factor in the calculation is pretty much useless, since 99.9% of the time the attacking person has this bonus thus the attacked person will ALWAYS bring less allies to battle

so basically your battle calculation comes down to just stats and equipment

Please let me know if this is correct or if I am mistaken

Cheers

Derez
11-14-2014, 04:28 PM
My older games, that worked the higher level maps for loot, back when level 200s didn't level up, are doing well, my newer games didn't work the maps for loot, and they are suffering. I want a refund on all the gems I bought building up my stats.
I know that won't happen, but you just made it clear to us that you don't care about your players at all.

I have loved this game for the last 2.75 years, but now I'm getting fed up.

Jnsolberg, I am sorry that you feel this way as it was not the intention of these new features. Due to the design of the original game that was created almost 3 years ago content has become extremely shallow in that players have only continued to build one stat over time which has led to large gaps in the shrinking player base and a huge decrease in competition. These new features were designed to reengage players, build new competition, and add depth to the game so that we can continue to support the community for years to come.

Lunagirl
11-14-2014, 04:30 PM
Yeah - armies really need to be what are attack is based on

Fromm
11-14-2014, 04:34 PM
Jnsolberg, I am sorry that you feel this way as it was not the intention of these new features. Due to the design of the original game that was created almost 3 years ago content has become extremely shallow in that players have only continued to build one stat over time which has led to large gaps in the shrinking player base and a huge decrease in competition. These new features were designed to reengage players, build new competition, and add depth to the game so that we can continue to support the community for years to come.

Moves like this is why you have a shrinking player base

truthteller
11-14-2014, 04:50 PM
Jnsolberg, I am sorry that you feel this way as it was not the intention of these new features. Due to the design of the original game that was created almost 3 years ago content has become extremely shallow in that players have only continued to build one stat over time which has led to large gaps in the shrinking player base and a huge decrease in competition. These new features were designed to reengage players, build new competition, and add depth to the game so that we can continue to support the community for years to come.

Derez
we understand games need to improve and change, that is fine
but why in the heck did you guys have to make a HUGE game changing adjustment during a war weekend?

1- Did you guys do this on purpose so that players would have to spend more gems
2- Did you do this without thinking it was a new way of gaming and war weekend was not the best time
3- Did anyone stop to think that players need to adapt to the new changes, (ei: buy tons of head, feet and artifact for their armies) understand what needs to be done
4- did you do this so just to give most players the final push to quit this wonderful game? cause that is what is happening, lost big spenders are leaving the game

What is the point on wasting gems on a war that you cannot defeat your rival after you have already spend 1000x of real cash

Derez
11-14-2014, 04:51 PM
WaffleKing

With all due respect, the new calculation is one of the stupidest idea Gree has implemented in the game

here is the reason why I think of that

1- stats vs stas is same as usual
2- equipment, now people have to buy/craft more or better equipment

3- the BIG issue, ALLIES............for almost everyone in top 500 to top 1........we all have the -"x"% alliance which means that when you attack a rival that rival will bring LESS allies to battle.........thus this factor in the calculation is pretty much useless, since 99.9% of the time the attacking person has this bonus thus the attacked person will ALWAYS bring less allies to battle

so basically your battle calculation comes down to just stats and equipment

Please let me know if this is correct or if I am mistaken

Cheers

Truthteller, the following addresses each of your points:

1- This was intentional as to not devalue the stats that all of the players have been building since the beginning of the game.

2- While players can buy these items in the short term, its purpose is to not limit the importance of hero items only to what is on your hero. This gives players a reason to continue crafting even if their hero has the best equipment possible. Additionally, having seen the rate at which our player base excels through content we felt that crafting would have been a wasted feature if it only ever affected 6 slots.

3- Allies actually affect the size of your army and the amount of army equipment, so to say that this makes the new equipment calculation useless is false. If that were the case the army calculation that we were already using and called out in point 1 would also be useless.

As for the bonus that you are talking about, if a player had every one of those bonuses that were ever offered in Kingdom Age (which I don't think is possible based on how they were awarded) they would reduce their opponents army by a total of 45 allies making it 455 if they were maxed out at 500.

Lucas HQ
11-14-2014, 04:56 PM
can we get an explanation about how the hero stats are calculated? how can we improve this?

truthteller
11-14-2014, 05:06 PM
Derez
let me see if I understand with this scenarios

battle 1
me rival
stats 100 50 = I win
allies 80 95 = I loose
equipment 25 10 = I win
battle results I would win

battle 2
me rival
stats 100 50 = I win
allies 80 95 = I loose
equipment 25 70 = I loose
battle results I would loose

So Do allies and equipment go hand by hand? I a take 20 less allies to battle due to rival reduction alliance bonus, that means I take 60 less units, 60 less head, feed, artifact, weapon,armor to battle too?

if the above is right, would I not be always at a disatvantage unless the stats on the remaining equipment I take to battle still add to higher stats than the rival?

Genuine
11-14-2014, 05:12 PM
I have screenies of two accounts one with a win and one with a loss... Yet both accounts are higher hero Attack, and both are less army Attack and defence, confused on why one wins and one losses. As much as everyone threatens to leave I haven't ever, until now. This makes absolutely no sense... None.

truthteller
11-14-2014, 05:16 PM
Derez / WaffleKing

another suggestion (most likely for next improvement) since it is probably too late for this one or perhaps still time

you guys added 3 more spots for Hero equipment
rather than having us the players tap, 4,500 on the game to buy the head, feet and artifact for our armies, is it still time for you guys, to just add them to every player's inventory

it would help keep things "as they were" and then those with the new craft items would have their rightful advange over others

Cheers

Uberfauker
11-14-2014, 05:16 PM
Instead of fighting this weekend, I'm going to write a letter to iTunes detailing how I spent the last 2.5 years spending and building my account up and now lose to players with inferior stats. Sure, they bought more of the crap in the store or crafted their little hearts out but in one day they are stronger than me because of that? I'll also make a decision sometime this weekend to delete this app or not.

This is a failure, whoever thought of this idea should be fired.

bird1992
11-14-2014, 05:18 PM
what about high level players that don't have lot attack and defence skill points for this mess

Jnsolberg
11-14-2014, 05:18 PM
Jnsolberg, I am sorry that you feel this way as it was not the intention of these new features. Due to the design of the original game that was created almost 3 years ago content has become extremely shallow in that players have only continued to build one stat over time which has led to large gaps in the shrinking player base and a huge decrease in competition. These new features were designed to reengage players, build new competition, and add depth to the game so that we can continue to support the community for years to come.


The point here is the timing and lack of communication about the changes. If we had even a week's notice, we could have not upgraded that last building, or made that last donation to the guild. We could have invested in 1000 heavy weapons in the store. And we would not have had all that aggravation during the first 3-4 battles.

I Actually might like the changes, my older games have lots of great weapons and Armor form the maps, I'm not sure yet. But I absolutely hate the way you did it.

BillyGates
11-14-2014, 05:24 PM
Hey I've got an idea!

Why doesn't Gree rollback all the changes from the last couple of days and force people to download the previous client, then think about your changes before implementing them before war.

As everyone has said.... people aren't happy they've spent years of time and many $$$ on armies that now appear worthless in the new system.

[JAG] Ryan
11-14-2014, 05:25 PM
Hi Derez

i understand the intention behind this change. However i have to agree that the timing for the change is very unfortunate as well as the leck of information about it.

Anyways, the rebalancing might add value as long as the build advantage over time (with money and time) still remains and keeps a big factor in the new balance system. Also it is crucial to get the required information on how the single factor stats are calculated as well as the information on how they can be improved.

Also it seems that certain factors like skill points are considered here into thatz calulation while we cant reallocate them in any way.

Please provide us here with more precise information asap so we can try to avoid the frustration many players experience also asap.

Last but not least it seems that the time to hit has extremly slowed down (between 20 seconds up to 1 minute). This might be due to the additional calculation of the new factors. If that is the case please find a way to fasten this process up as its not only annoying to wait 30 seconds to be able to hit again but also extremply boring and it takes a lot of the fun from a battle away.

Thank you

Derez
11-14-2014, 05:30 PM
Derez
we understand games need to improve and change, that is fine
but why in the heck did you guys have to make a HUGE game changing adjustment during a war weekend?

1- Did you guys do this on purpose so that players would have to spend more gems
2- Did you do this without thinking it was a new way of gaming and war weekend was not the best time
3- Did anyone stop to think that players need to adapt to the new changes, (ei: buy tons of head, feet and artifact for their armies) understand what needs to be done
4- did you do this so just to give most players the final push to quit this wonderful game? cause that is what is happening, lost big spenders are leaving the game

What is the point on wasting gems on a war that you cannot defeat your rival after you have already spend 1000x of real cash


The last minute deploy of the new features was not in any way to get players to spend more gems in the Conquest event. We have been planning this release for a while but it was pushed back due to some changes in development, this being evident by the original popup that we display in early October announcing these features.

That being said, the Conquest event was redesigned to reward items that fed into crafting and rewarded players the new Hero Equip items. Unfortunately the new items were not supported in the previous version of the game which is why we had been rewarding vouchers for the new item types. Due to the time required to rebuild the entire Conquest event, test it, and deploy it we went forward with updating to the new version.

Team Zuma
11-14-2014, 05:36 PM
Seems that Gree developers don't actually PLAY the game. A mistake big time.

truthteller
11-14-2014, 05:37 PM
Thanks for your replies Derez

I like the crafting since it is a mix of the MQ fusion and the "evolution" in LAW
those were two things I loved about those two games (RIP)

I wonder if in the future you will introduce the "evolution" and "level up" of equipment (fuse two of the same equipment, then level it up to max level to release its full potential) just like with heros in LAW

that would be a nice feature

Hockeydoc
11-14-2014, 05:42 PM
I have played many games, but KA is the only one that consistently makes changes right before war weekend and expects players to deal with it. In no other game or sport are players expected to deal with unexpected rules changes as we do in. KA. Like others who have posted, I have spent time and real money to build a profile only to lose because I didn't know to change an area beforehand. Just imagine the chaos if the World Cup were to suddenly change scoring to defensive players getting different points for a goal compared to a striker. I am so furious at what was done and how that my favorite weekend, War, is now a waste of my time.

Sweet {T} (aka Trillian, cofounder of TPK and Serita, founder of DC)

Palewood
11-14-2014, 06:00 PM
Jnsolberg, I am sorry that you feel this way as it was not the intention of these new features. Due to the design of the original game that was created almost 3 years ago content has become extremely shallow in that players have only continued to build one stat over time which has led to large gaps in the shrinking player base and a huge decrease in competition. These new features were designed to reengage players, build new competition, and add depth to the game so that we can continue to support the community for years to come.


This attitude explains how disconnected you are with the player group and the impact of the way you manage and communicate to your players.

For one minute did your team think about the timing of this change? For one minute did you discuss how to educate people about the changes and how they can understand the new statsictcs and how to improve them?

For one minute did you think about how reducing the value of the stats a person has spent 2-3 years developing in the blink of an update would impact a player? The money and time spent? No transition period, no ability to see that value reinvested in the character.

Put yourself in a players shoes for one minute! A player who has spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours on a character that is no longer as strong as what it was - with no warning, no discussion.

Very strange

Lunagirl
11-14-2014, 06:08 PM
Gree this may be a good idea but it is not working - it takes 15-30secs for a hit to register please change it back!

Lunagirl
11-14-2014, 06:19 PM
Unless your intention was to cause war to not be fun thus causing us to spend less gems which then I should be thanking you :-)

Bilbo
11-14-2014, 06:26 PM
why does it show that i only have 30 allies, when i have 500?

what do i need to do to build my equipment stats?

I have spent $1,000s building a great character that never loses in war and now I cant win 50% of the time.

I do not mind change, but if you cant explain to me what i need to do to win, i will stop playing and many others will also.

4dam6
11-14-2014, 06:30 PM
"We will be holding an AMA next week to answer any other questions or concerns you might have with these new battle calculations and Hero Equipment."

You guys have screwed this up so bad that I would be surprised if there is anybody left next week!!

Bilbo
11-14-2014, 06:31 PM
What is an AMA -- i have never been invited.

mozartli1125
11-14-2014, 08:23 PM
Hi, Derez,

What your guys thought and planned may be very good and attractive. But you guys deployed it in a totally wrong way. You should still use the total Att/Def to judge the winner for this war. Then tell us about the new features and how to improve it. Then you can use new method to judge the winner in the future wars. Now it is totally chaos!!! You said the total Att/Def is still major factor but it is not in fact. My att is more than 500m but I lost to the 100 def. How is that possible. Bugs all over the program!!!!!

sdunn00
11-14-2014, 10:16 PM
Hi, Derez,

What your guys thought and planned may be very good and attractive. But you guys deployed it in a totally wrong way. You should still use the total Att/Def to judge the winner for this war. Then tell us about the new features and how to improve it. Then you can use new method to judge the winner in the future wars. Now it is totally chaos!!! You said the total Att/Def is still major factor but it is not in fact. My att is more than 500m but I lost to the 100 def. How is that possible. Bugs all over the program!!!!!

I agree....our original Attack is not a large factor at all....when I can't beat someone who's is far less than half my Attack....something is very wrong.....this should have been CLEARLY communicated up front & we should have been give plenty of time to work on weapons improvements far in advance of the beginning of this war....

HCobra
11-14-2014, 11:04 PM
For every time someone mentions player, substitute customer, and make no mistake, we are real money paying customers. I've never seen a customer base so unhappy with their supplier. The communication with your customer is nonexistent, the ability to provide a consistent product is nonexistent. You wonder why you have a shrinking customer base? Really? Is Gree so out of touch?.....never mind, that would be a rhetorical question..seriously Gree..wake up and ask yourself why people are really leaving the game, and it sure as hell has nothing to do with the way stats are created, it's the fact that every time you change something you FAIL to communicate, and 90% of the time it doesn't work correctly... Well done Gree, another monumental FAIL for your customers!

Gendur
11-15-2014, 02:29 AM
I bought more basic masks…my army defense go up and my hero attack and defence go down….wth ?!

Gendur
11-15-2014, 04:45 AM
found out why, for some reason my body armor was switched by itself to a crappy armor

E-I
11-15-2014, 07:55 AM
This update was a colossal failure. You have devalued the stats and units that players have spent thousands of dollars collecting. You have slowed down the battle/attack/raid component of the game to the point where Conquest is frustrating rather than fun. You have added massive confusion about how to win during battle. And you manged to do all of this on a day before war started.

This update sucks. You have taken the fun parts of the game and killed it. If there is one positive, it is that battles take so incredibly long that in an hour you only have time to use a handful of gem reloads. But otherwise, it blows.

I would suggest backing out all of the changes. Even get rid of the crafting center. Go back to what the game way rather than this monstrosity you have created. Otherwise, this will surely be the end of KA.

Baela3
11-15-2014, 08:30 AM
NEW BATTLE CALCULATIONS AND HERO ITEM STATS

With the addition of Hero Equip we have made additions to the items that you take into battle with you. Army units now bring in one of each of the new equipment types as well as your hero bringing in their gear as well.

In the past all of these items were thrown into one pot which made weapon and armor items worth less as their total power was a fraction of a percent to that of a single army unit.

The new battle calculation compares like amounts to each other instead of putting everything in one bucket. Armies vs Armies, Army Equipment vs Army Equipment, and Hero vs Hero. This means that hero equipment stats, while still well under 100, are actually just as powerful as a unit with a power 100,000 or more. However, armies are still the majority of the battle outcome calculation in order to not take away from the large armies that players have built over the years.

A second addition to the battle calculation is that both players attack and defend. This gives importance to both stats, where in the past players really only cared about building attack at a higher rate as well as simulating an actual battle. This may have an affect on the players that you are now able to successfully attack, while your attack may be higher than your defense they are actually more powerful than you in an overall battle.

Part of the reason that we have made these changes were to add depth and value to the new crafting feature. Allowing items that are not currently being used by your hero to be used by your armies in a meaningful way will not only allow players to craft more items over time but also extends the value of equipment that is replaced on your hero.

We will be holding an AMA next week to answer any other questions or concerns you might have with these new battle calculations and Hero Equipment.

Congrats on killing the game, GREE. See, we players have an entire infrastructure across chat apps to aid in battle and events and to communicate with players across the world. Today's #1 topic: i quit....being said by players all over. You did this, GREE
Epic fail.

the_bob
11-15-2014, 10:04 AM
I have played many games, but KA is the only one that consistently makes changes right before war weekend and expects players to deal with it. In no other game or sport are players expected to deal with unexpected rules changes as we do in. KA. Like others who have posted, I have spent time and real money to build a profile only to lose because I didn't know to change an area beforehand. Just imagine the chaos if the World Cup were to suddenly change scoring to defensive players getting different points for a goal compared to a striker. I am so furious at what was done and how that my favorite weekend, War, is now a waste of my time.

I've bolded exactly why you, Derez, are wrong. Hockeydoc gets it. This is is the exact reason this update is a failure and the perfect example of the disconnect between Gree and it's players. This is the reason you will ultimately drive off every last one of your customers. It isn't the awful performance of this update or the horrible coding that causes crashes and the one full minute of "spinning wheel" when trying to attack anybody. No, we all expect that sort of shoddy work from Gree by now. This is the death of not only KA, but of Gree as a whole.

Shadows
11-15-2014, 11:04 AM
why does it show that i only have 30 allies, when i have 500?

what do i need to do to build my equipment stats?

I have spent $1,000s building a great character that never loses in war and now I cant win 50% of the time.

I do not mind change, but if you cant explain to me what i need to do to win, i will stop playing and many others will also.

Lemme piggyback on your excellent questions, bilbo :-)

IIRC the 30 allies was a display error, and we really have 500. No worries there, but then it begs the question, how many little artifacts/head gear/feet gear do I need for my allies-- 30 of each or 1500 of each?

edit: from another post, here's the question n answer:

so if we still bring 1500 units to battle (regardless of the display bug)
does that mean we can buy 1,500 feet, head and 3,000 artifact (which you only have 1 of each in the store) to equip our 1,500 units


yes except for the artifacts. Your army units only bring in one of each type so it would be 1500 artifacts as well.Only your hero can have two artifact slots.

Tigertiger55
11-15-2014, 01:57 PM
Two words Gree
NEW COKE

the_bob
11-15-2014, 03:58 PM
Two words Gree
NEW COKE

You win the reference game.

Deak548
11-15-2014, 10:48 PM
Well - all the answers have made my mind up. While I am nowhere near the strongest player & definitely not the largest spender (pretty much a free player) I spent a LOT (a stupid amount it turns out) of time building my stats. I never bought equipment (it was not needed) and have no intention of starting "over".
It's a shame really, as I was just getting into the forums and learning new things that I didn't know (surprisingly).
Good-bye all.

Scottthegreat
11-16-2014, 07:46 AM
I don't see where you have added the calculation of alliance attack and defense % increase or the addition of alliance numbers? When I attack I don't see the addition of these numbers. It's a flat 500 which doesn't include my +15 allies or my triple digit alliance defense and attack units! Where do these numbers play in; especially since the top 2 guilds will win an additional alliance defense and attack %!

Scottthegreat
11-16-2014, 09:30 AM
I don't see where you have added the calculation of alliance attack and defense % increase or the addition of alliance numbers? When I attack I don't see the addition of these numbers. It's a flat 500 which doesn't include my +15 allies or my triple digit alliance defense and attack units! Where do these numbers play in; especially since the top 2 guilds will win an additional alliance defense and attack %!

Also I don't see where you take into consideration our conquest attack increase or CP% increase???how is that calculated in?

b4davis
11-16-2014, 03:54 PM
How is it possible that two players in our guild, playing at about the same level, could have a difference of ~4200 in Hero Attack? One has 4775, the other 522.

Silent follower
11-16-2014, 05:25 PM
How is it possible that two players in our guild, playing at about the same level, could have a difference of ~4200 in Hero Attack? One has 4775, the other 522.

Compare their Army Attack skills, I'm sure you'll find there the reason for the big difference. And let us know if this is the case, the more we share info like this, the better we can get an understanding on how the hero skills work.

the_bob
11-16-2014, 10:34 PM
Compare their Army Attack skills, I'm sure you'll find there the reason for the big difference. And let us know if this is the case, the more we share info like this, the better we can get an understanding on how the hero skills work.

Yes, please do post their skill numbers. I'm extremely interested.

steve_r
11-17-2014, 12:59 AM
Given the fight mechanics change, it would be fair to refund all skill points so they can be reassigned

Gendur
11-17-2014, 02:36 AM
I noticed an increase of 17 hero attack points for every attack skill point I added when I leveled up (Lev 172 btw)

b4davis
11-17-2014, 09:34 AM
There is definitely a huge diff in the Army Att skills of the two, but I thought that Army Att was separate from Hero Att now?

Lucas HQ
11-17-2014, 12:18 PM
attack/defense skill points increase your here stats with about lvl/10. (so a L172 should indeed increase its hero attack with 17)

the_bob
11-17-2014, 01:51 PM
This 2 out of 3 thing is totally broken.

Army stats from Units needs to be worth more than hero equipment or army equipment.

I doubt this is feasible, but something like for every x% higher your unit attack is than your opponents unit defense, you gain a bonus point. Maybe every 20% higher? So if you are 0-19% higher, you get one point. 20-39% higher you get two points, and so forth. Keep equipment as it is now so that just being higher is 1 point with no bonuses. Same goes the other way, if your target's defense is higher than yours they get a bonus point for every 20% higher than you they are.

Most points wins, in the event of a tie then you can pull out this best 2 of 3 as the tie breaker.

Equipment should be the ace up your sleeve, not the whole hand.

truthteller
11-17-2014, 01:55 PM
This 2 out of 3 thing is totally broken.

Army stats from Units needs to be worth more than hero equipment or army equipment.

I doubt this is feasible, but something like for every x% higher your unit attack is than your opponents unit defense, you gain a bonus point. Maybe every 20% higher? So if you are 0-19% higher, you get one point. 20-39% higher you get two points, and so forth. Keep equipment as it is now so that just being higher is 1 point with no bonuses. Same goes the other way, if your target's defense is higher than yours they get a bonus point for every 20% higher than you they are.

Most points wins, in the event of a tie then you can pull out this best 2 of 3 as the tie breaker.

Equipment should be the ace up your sleeve, not the whole hand.

They want players to spend real cash getting their equipment high enough to win battles again

dpille
11-17-2014, 04:08 PM
I think it's interesting that Gree speaks of increasing competition, and all the whining here is clearly from the entrenched top players.

I thought the change was incredible. I found myself wishing I could contact the half of my guild that no longer bothers to fight wars due to our usual inability to beat any guardian let alone similarly-leveled players. It was a blast to actually fight again, and I think there's a solid chance some of my guild mates would play seriously again if they thought they could have as successful a war as we just did. Shoot, with a handful more active players this time they'd have been euphoric over our ranking.

Anyway, fellow posters might keep in mind that no matter how much cash you've sunk into the game, it's diminishing returns for Gree. Their financial health moving forward is much more about new players or non-spenders ponying up rather than hoping you guys keep your wallets open forever.

Blind Man
11-18-2014, 11:29 AM
Blaaaa blaa blaaaaa : Gree everyone is mad at U.. Again.. WHY??? CUZ once again u change stuff and have no common sense.... Plz for the love God/whatever just talk to someone that's not managment first and ask them on how to avoid crap like this... All these posts and not one answer to simple questions, this lack on info is the biggest factor and why everyone gets mad and quits and spots paying.
We want to know !!
What is the numbers break down for battles.
How much does hero Atk/def go up per point.
Simple stuff, provide us with the numbers when u make changes. We'd be happier if we knew why we lose fights. Is it simple as beating the other guy 2/3 of army/epuip/hero?? (This would be stupid btw ) or do u have hiddin % values for the epuip/hero stats and u add the totals after to detirmin a win? iether way it was poorly though out.
So plz just provide the numbers!! Don't care about anything else other then u tweek them, drop the overall %effect of army epuip and hero stats on battle by 10% or so each.. A army 2x stronger then other guy should not lose no matter what. This will make people happier, and should have been done at the start.

Acadian
11-21-2014, 12:55 PM
In the recent one hour session with devs on the forum, they did tell us how to figure hero attack.
For every point you add to army attack or defense you gain your level/10 to hero attack or defense accordingly
Add that number to your personal equipment (the hero equipment with the 6 open slots)
This gives you your total for each stat. It adds up on all 3 of my characters this way.

Acadian
11-21-2014, 12:57 PM
my issue now is for us with low equipment att and def b/c we never farmed, I have been doing all ltq's and trials, and trials don't drop the items from zones like the regular mobs would. 25k compared to most I see at my level range being between 50 to 120k. It would be really awesome to have a dropdown menu to buy items,

the_bob
11-21-2014, 05:08 PM
In the recent one hour session with devs on the forum, they did tell us how to figure hero attack.
For every point you add to army attack or defense you gain your level/10 to hero attack or defense accordingly
Add that number to your personal equipment (the hero equipment with the 6 open slots)
This gives you your total for each stat. It adds up on all 3 of my characters this way.

Gree never explained that. Someone asked it and the dev said they thought it sounded close, but in a later post commented on how Hero stats should be increased by Hero Strength and not Army Attack/Army Defense so the calculations are currently bugged.

Do not spread falsehoods.

Jnsolberg
11-22-2014, 06:03 AM
My level 200s get 19 added to my hero stats per defensive skill point, my level 148 gets 14

KillaDon
11-22-2014, 10:07 AM
It's all still messed up cause my level 146 got 15pts added to Hero Attack when I added one skill pt to it

the_bob
11-22-2014, 01:28 PM
My level 200s get 19 added to my hero stats per defensive skill point, my level 148 gets 14

decimal rounding. My 160 got 16, 16, and 15. If we knew the whole formula we could find where the rounding is happening, but we don't so we can't.


It's all still messed up cause my level 146 got 15pts added to Hero Attack when I added one skill pt to it

Isn't this stuff taught as basic math pretty much everywhere in the world? I don't understand why you don't get it.

garen argon
11-28-2014, 11:27 AM
what about high level players that don't have lot attack and defence skill points for this mess

every single one of them is screwed; as gree won't provide a stat reallocation.

sucks.

Jnsolberg
11-28-2014, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Derez in the AMA:

PLAYER STAT POINTS

I know that there is confusion with the current stat point system and how it is affect player stats. I will make sure that we confirm that they are working as intended with these new systems and post a write up to the forums with details before we release the item that allows you to re-spec your characters.

We are still waiting! One week until the next war. Please get this taken care of!

Uther1
12-20-2014, 11:33 PM
Can we get a sample stat page that shows where we should allocate points ?
I just put everything into hero attack and I think I had a pretty rounded out player before please post a sample good stat page on a splash screen or email to players

Uther1
12-20-2014, 11:37 PM
Can we get se info on how to get more chests from lobs or equipment and also when r bonuses for equipment coming out and using gems to craft is really cheap it makes it too expensive to craft

B. W.
12-27-2014, 04:24 AM
Battle calculation is one big lie. I won battle in every category, but I've lost. This game became a piece of crap. Farewell GREEd, I'm leaving. I have enough of all that bugs, messing with the game, pissing on customers and lies.

Amelio
01-10-2015, 08:59 PM
NEW BATTLE CALCULATIONS AND HERO ITEM STATS

With the addition of Hero Equip we have made additions to the items that you take into battle with you. Army units now bring in one of each of the new equipment types as well as your hero bringing in their gear as well.

In the past all of these items were thrown into one pot which made weapon and armor items worth less as their total power was a fraction of a percent to that of a single army unit.

The new battle calculation compares like amounts to each other instead of putting everything in one bucket. Armies vs Armies, Army Equipment vs Army Equipment, and Hero vs Hero. This means that hero equipment stats, while still well under 100, are actually just as powerful as a unit with a power 100,000 or more. However, armies are still the majority of the battle outcome calculation in order to not take away from the large armies that players have built over the years.

A second addition to the battle calculation is that both players attack and defend. This gives importance to both stats, where in the past players really only cared about building attack at a higher rate as well as simulating an actual battle. This may have an affect on the players that you are now able to successfully attack, while your attack may be higher than your defense they are actually more powerful than you in an overall battle.

Part of the reason that we have made these changes were to add depth and value to the new crafting feature. Allowing items that are not currently being used by your hero to be used by your armies in a meaningful way will not only allow players to craft more items over time but also extends the value of equipment that is replaced on your hero.

We will be holding an AMA next week to answer any other questions or concerns you might have with these new battle calculations and Hero Equipment.



JUST ADMIT.. You are INTENTIONALLY DESTROYING GAME, GREE HATES KA... So they're intentionally chasing ppl away with all the changes !! And THIS RAID BOSS WITH A HORRIBLE 33/33 prize !

Shadows
01-11-2015, 05:08 PM
JUST ADMIT.. You are INTENTIONALLY DESTROYING GAME, GREE HATES KA... So they're intentionally chasing ppl away with all the changes !! And THIS RAID BOSS WITH A HORRIBLE 33/33 prize !

You _do_ realize how ridiculous this claim is, right? If Gree wants to get rid of the game, they just either shut down the servers or they quit supporting it... they most certainly do not go out of their way to create a change, whether it's for good or for bad... Hey, you wanna complain about the prize, great, there's actually a thread here dedicated to that very idea: http://forums.gree.net/showthread.php?104065-Problems-with-Raid-Boss

Oh, wait, you did post on-topic there... so why the off-topic post here, Amelio? Bumping your post count or what?