View Full Version : New algorithm...

Bluehavana2

12-18-2014, 01:06 PM

Ok, most of us agree this sucks, but it is what it is.

We are now being told that atk vs def now makes up about 50% of the result and the equipment/army numbers make up the rest.

It used to be easy in WD, recon and hit targets with def less than 85% of your att and you'd usually win.

Now it's a crap shoot.

Does anyone have any useful (constructive) ideas how to best recon in targets in WD now?

Stubby1113

12-18-2014, 01:10 PM

I'm hitting same targets I would have in prior WD and haven't lost a fight yet

ichbin

12-18-2014, 02:22 PM

Losing fights here left and right when I have 500m more than the other player. And only 1 number difference in equipment stats...

Monteverdi

12-18-2014, 03:25 PM

I power attacked a player and lost twice even though I had higher stats in all three categories !

Namshilah

12-18-2014, 03:50 PM

I have

50% more army strength

10% less soldier equipped strength

20% more army armor stats

and I lost. I attacked again to see if it was a fluke and I lost again.

so I won the two largest factors handily, lost the 3rd by a single point and I lose the battle?

Gree totally messed this up. Not just by making it more complicated, but by making it non-sensical.

Ozymandias

12-19-2014, 01:03 AM

It's not army attack versus army defence for the 50%, it's a combination of attacker attack versus defender defence and defender attack vs attacker defence

Addwind

12-19-2014, 01:17 AM

Gree has not given enough info on what "50% of the result" mean.

Let's pose a simple example....

Attacker has 1b attack stat. Defender has 800m def stat.

For the "stat" category that makes up 50% of the battle results, what does "50%" mean? Attacker is 200m stronger, which is 20% stronger... What does it mean in "50% terms".

MW Flake

12-19-2014, 01:44 AM

It's not 50%. It's "up to 50%".

Ozymandias

12-19-2014, 02:14 AM

There's two bits... The army power part which is a ratio weighted at 50% of the overall matchup formula. Within that, we are told that Ad vs Da can account for up to 50% (when Aa = Dd)

Addwind

12-19-2014, 03:26 AM

So what does that mean?

The whole statement of ratio weighted at 50% is confusing and unclear. Assuming that the attacker's def and defender's attack has no bearing on the calculation... help me understand what weighted ratio mean in Gree's world?

Example:

Category 1 (50%):

Attacker attack: 1b

Defender's def: 800m

Category 2 (20%):

Attacker's soldier attack equipment: 16

Defender's soldier def equipment: 18

Category 3 (30%):

Attacker's army attack equipment: 8

Defender's army def equipment: 11

Are you saying in the example above, attacker wins Cat 1 by 20%, defender wins cat 2 by 11% and defender wins cat 3 by 27%.

Then u weight cat 1 by 50%, so attacker has 20% x 0.5 = 10% "battle win"

and weight cat 2 by 30%, so defender has 11% x 30% = 3% "battle win"

and weight car 3 by 20%, so defender has 27% x 20% = 5% "battle win"

So attacker wins battle (although only winning 1 category) because he has 10%, compared to defender's 3% + 5% = 8%?

Is that what all this weighted stuff means? Or calculated some other way?

Then scrub all that, and apply "up to 50%" (not = 50%) and recalculate:

Floating point: Weighted Multiplier Cat 1 = random number (0 to 0.5)

Floating point: Weighted Multiplier Cat 2 = random number (0 to 0.3)

Floating point: Weighted Multiplier Cat 3 = random number (0 to 0.2)

Calculate: Battle results()

Output: Battle results()

And output we get:

Error. Stack overflow.

So:

Battle Results = random()

Ozymandias

12-19-2014, 04:15 AM

That's broadly my understanding, but again, the category 1 bit includes 2 components...

A)Your attack vs their defence

And

B) their attack versus your defence

With B) accounting for maybe up to 50 % of category 1s 50%, as below

"A lot of people have also asked more about the relative importance of attacker attack versus defender defense versus defender attack versus attacker defense. The answer is that they are not a fixed percentage of each segment of the calculation. The bigger the discrepancy between attacker attack and defender defense the less the defender attack and attacker defense matters. In other words, if I attack you and my attack blows away your defense, then your attack and my defense will be largely irrelevant. On the other hand, if my attack is exactly evenly matched with your defense, then your attack versus my defense makes up half of that segment’s calculation. "

MW Flake

12-19-2014, 04:25 AM

Not it's not a set 50% for one part, and up to 50% for the other half, of army stats.

Army strength (all parts) - up to 50%

Soldier equipment (all parts) - up to 30%

Army equipment (all parts) - up to 20%

Within each of them who knows wtf is going on.

SUPpose So

12-19-2014, 05:14 AM

So what does that mean?

The whole statement of ratio weighted at 50% is confusing and unclear. Assuming that the attacker's def and defender's attack has no bearing on the calculation... help me understand what weighted ratio mean in Gree's world?

Example:

Category 1 (50%):

Attacker attack: 1b

Defender's def: 800m

Category 2 (20%):

Attacker's soldier attack equipment: 16

Defender's soldier def equipment: 18

Category 3 (30%):

Attacker's army attack equipment: 8

Defender's army def equipment: 11

Are you saying in the example above, attacker wins Cat 1 by 20%, defender wins cat 2 by 11% and defender wins cat 3 by 27%.

Then u weight cat 1 by 50%, so attacker has 20% x 0.5 = 10% "battle win"

and weight cat 2 by 30%, so defender has 11% x 30% = 3% "battle win"

and weight car 3 by 20%, so defender has 27% x 20% = 5% "battle win"

So attacker wins battle (although only winning 1 category) because he has 10%, compared to defender's 3% + 5% = 8%?

Is that what all this weighted stuff means? Or calculated some other way?

Then scrub all that, and apply "up to 50%" (not = 50%) and recalculate:

Floating point: Weighted Multiplier Cat 1 = random number (0 to 0.5)

Floating point: Weighted Multiplier Cat 2 = random number (0 to 0.3)

Floating point: Weighted Multiplier Cat 3 = random number (0 to 0.2)

Calculate: Battle results()

Output: Battle results()

And output we get:

Error. Stack overflow.

So:

Battle Results = random()

The only bit i understood as it a well know fact we dont read the manual,....... was its Random !!

Yep had it confirmed by ticket that there are random factors. Anyone who seriously believes GREE will change this system is mistaken.. Look at CC and KA... Both wrecked. They just want to milk the player base by getting us to buy gold... Its a one sided business model.

SurfaceToAir

12-19-2014, 06:15 AM

Do Base Defenses now actually count? Is that the missing link?

Ozymandias

12-19-2014, 07:28 AM

Nope it's your defence vs their attack

cjy11

12-20-2014, 02:22 AM

Can the MODS please seek clarification on this?

Dal7691

12-20-2014, 03:20 AM

Whatever the answer from the most incompetent gaming company ever to ruin what was once a great game the formula that you need to be a mad rocket scientist to understand which alienates approximately 99.99% of the players it is flawed and I am eager to find out why a Att of 6.7b with army euipment of 43 & soldier 7 loses to a def of 4.4b with 28 army and 12 soldier when Gree say army equipment and Attack should make up the majority of the equation meaning if you are significantly stronger in those two areas you should win easily even more confusing is the fact if I change how my equipment is equipped so army drops to 39 and soldier increases to 11 I now win the fight so for those of us not blessed with the madness of Murdoch and the genius of Einstein please explain how the formula works and prove it does by applying the formula to the figures I have published you are alienating more and more players Gree WD was one of the events I enjoyed immensely I'm a the stage within a day of the new screwed up version of not wanting to take part and I'm sure there are 10's of thousands feel the same way. And before somee smartarse troll try's to belittle what I have posted this is my opinion on the game in its current format and the stats quoted were from a battle in WD I was involved in last night I'm sure most people would agree the game is massively flawed and that Gree need to publish a clear concise explanation of how things work so that even the most intellectually challenged player can understand what is going on. So mods please get one of your developers to answer this request

Ozymandias

12-20-2014, 05:15 AM

I am eager to find out why a Att of 6.7b with army euipment of 43 & soldier 7 loses to a def of 4.4b with 28 army and 12 soldier when Gree say army equipment and Attack should make up the majority of the equation meaning if you are significantly stronger in those two areas you should win easily even more confusing is the fact if I change how my equipment is equipped so army drops to 39 and soldier increases to 11 I now win the fight

Yep.. the missing part is the attacker defence versus defender attack comparison, which makes up part of the army power match-up, which accounts for 50% of the battle equation, alongside the tradition attacker attack versus defender defence.

For you to have lost, his attack relative to your defence must have been sufficiently large to overcome the advantage you have on equipment and your attack versus his defence. A 150% advantage on attack versus defence is actually not a lot, so its fair to assume that his attack and defence are both a bit more than yours, so his attack/your defence > your attack/his defence, hence overall you lost the 50% part of the equation, despite having a higher attack then his defence.

On the equipment side you had a 43/27 = 160% advantage on army equip, but 7/12 = 60% disadvantage on solider equip. As these are weighted at 30% and 20% respectively, you had a roughly a net 118% advantage on equipment.

So for you to lose overall, you must have lost the overall army stats half of the equation by >118% (ignoring the random factor)... which is more than doable.

Once you moved good equipment from your army to your soldier, the army equip ratio fell to 39/27=144%, but the solider equip ratio improved to 11/12=90%, so that the weighted overall ratio in the equipment side was now 123%, rather than the 118% you had earlier. This improvement therefore must have been sufficient to tip the overall balance back in your favour.

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