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View Full Version : LIARs LIARs LIARs: King of Lying and all other things about new Epic Boss



Mattman@WLD
01-01-2015, 09:48 AM
Hello GREE (with a pointed message to the king of waffling aka lying)

It is time to revisit the string of messages made by WaffleKing to this community about the new EB event as found in this link http://forums.gree.net/showthread.php?102827-Official-Feedback-Epic-Boss-Meets-Hero-Equip/page5

We were told several points by WaffleKing:

"We will be making adjustments to the Epic Boss. It was too hard and we apologize and next Epic Boss you will see changed to make it easier. I do also want to address the players who think we are just going to keep making changes without taking into account our users feedback. We felt making the changes in the middle of EB would be a bad idea but we will make difficulty changes in the future so that our community is happy with the balance of Epic Boss."

"Hello Truthteller
We will also be dropping the xp you earn from EB as well, that was also something we have heard loud and clear."

"Hi Killadon
We will be adjusting the xp gained for the next Epic Boss. This was set too high and we will be lowering it back to normal levels."

As I have previously, I am calling Bull$%#*@%!!!! This event is no easier and the XP is no different. Waffleking you have lost all credibility with this community and so has your lying employer GREE. Why make these statements... We are sick of the lies (if you want to screw us at least have the courage to look us in the eyes first). I expect that the WaffleKing name to be changed (as what happened when Taaadah "left" and was replaced by WaffleKing). I believe you are really the same person with an assumed name (because that is what liars do - they lie).

I had resigned to saving my breath because it is wasted with a greedy lying company such as GREE, but I have been encouraged to post another message by those that believe I am capturing the voice of this community. I expect you to be too cowardly to reply to this message or worse, remove it (because that is how cowardly people and cowardly companies operate)!

Happy New Years from a used up and tired community!

Scottthegreat
01-01-2015, 09:55 AM
I agree with your statements wholeheartedly! Greedy Gree is just in it for the money!

Bic
01-01-2015, 10:06 AM
All of the above are thoughts shared by so many. It was bad enough taking away all the time, energy and money from those that had worked to making this event accessible freely but even worse to make cowardly excuses and promises of rectification and then back down on them. Are we, the customer, deemed that stupid and not worth the truth.
Gree have made what was one of my favourite events into one that isn't even worth bothering with. Why would I repeat all the work into making this event more accessible again when it's plainly inevitable that Gree will only change the rules again once I have.

Lunagirl
01-01-2015, 10:14 AM
Sorry but the xp has been reduced (thank you) and the boss hp has also been reduced slightly - now I run away

DonJ
01-01-2015, 10:24 AM
Thanks Mattman,

You speak from my heart.

i personally worked my ass off and spend a fortune to grow my account strong enough to do Epic Boss for free. Last time i was completly frustrated that you basically introduced a RESET to the game concerning Epic Boss. Then you promised to us to adapt the Epic Boss back to reasonable.

GREE you have no honor. what a poor bunch of people are you?

I am more than dissapointed that you think we are stupid money cows.
But one thing i tell you, see the numbers of players quitting? its because of YOU.
BTW, we have 6 new openings in a guild ranked 28, since last war.

WELL DONE GREE, WELL DONE!

DonJ
01-01-2015, 10:26 AM
Sorry but the xp has been reduced (thank you) and the boss hp has also been reduced slightly - now I run away

If the increase to origin would be the same than the decrease now, i would be fine.

I have done it free and easy and now i should spend couple of hundret gems again?
No way

Vclone
01-01-2015, 10:55 AM
Well said and has my full support

Mattman@WLD
01-01-2015, 12:27 PM
Sorry but the xp has been reduced (thank you) and the boss hp has also been reduced slightly - now I run away

HI Luna, I just went in and checked a few things: Regarding XP, last time xp was 10x/level. I just validated what XP I saw on boss #65 and it was only 200. I should have validated this before I posted but had heard the boss XP was identical from many other people. SO you are correct. GREE did reduce the XP from what I can now see. But I have many reports that the XP was higher on the top bosses so I will continue to monitor this.

Regarding the boss strength, I have not seen a reduction. Last event, I did 435 damage with my free hit... I got to boss 18 before needing two hits. This event my free his is 499 and I got to boss 21 before needing a second hit. So I see no reduction in the boss strength. Maybe the top end is no longer 10,250 but I have yet to reach this. Again, I will monitor this.

regardless, I was prodded by many people to make this post and it still is representative of what I am getting from the community.

E-I
01-01-2015, 12:37 PM
What? A Gree representative lying to us? On this forum? That can't be!
[/Sarcasm]


Should this be a surprise? I mean, after Tadaahh claimed there would be no more 2-week war cycles, then Gree scheduled one a couple weeks later... Gree has made no effort to work with customers, despite all of the feedback we have provided over the years. Sure every couple of months they bring a new face onto this forum who claims Gree will do more to listen to customers. Do they? Hell no. The only time Gree ever listens is when we hit them financially, either with boycott or by getting mass refunds from itunes.

Arahant
01-01-2015, 01:56 PM
Gree,

You are shameless, you lie, you make promises you don't keep.

EB healths is at L100 is 9500 - you liars.

Is this how you define, listening your customer base?

Unless you have a solution and reduced the L100 EB to 2000, you have no business posting anything here.

Useless....

Ninja_122
01-01-2015, 02:20 PM
I believe Gree and their spoke people think we r more gullible than children since they keep feeding us lies. Not one event has been fully functional, EB has not been adjusted nor fixed in any way. all events are now for boxes where none knows what you will get, battles have useless rewards also for the big spenders on....u guessed it!! More boxes!! And now they change and bring temp bonuses for players to keep spending on something that is only good for a few days!!
Battles, didn't they say no more battles every 2 was? Well, next battle is the 3rd schedule within 2 was span...when will they really listen to the community that spends the hard earn money on this game? We all players decide to stop playing until they (Gree) really fixes things n listens to us. Until then we will continue to beta test their product and paying for it as opposed to be the other way around.

Jnsolberg
01-01-2015, 02:48 PM
http://forums.gree.net/8BC64FC4-19A8-42B2-A06B-FD2F4AF836FA@mobilenotes.apple.com Originally Posted by Waffleking http://forums.gree.net/1B8A68DE-3890-45D4-8F8E-AA3B7034BD1A@mobilenotes.apple.com (http://forums.gree.net/showthread.php?p=1435946#post1435946)
We will be making adjustments to the Epic Boss. It was too hard and we apologize and next Epic Boss you will see changed to make it easier. I do also want to address the players who think we are just going to keep making changes without taking into account our users feedback. We felt making the changes in the middle of EB would be a bad idea but we will make difficulty changes in the future so that our community is happy with the balance of Epic Boss.


WaffleKing, you LIED to us. You did NOT change EpicBoss to be any easier, the boss' health is exactly the same. We had an entire thread that was devoted to how much we hated the "new" Epic Boss because we went from a few free hits to kill the level 100s to having to take 14-16 gold hits. So, you tell us that you agree it was too hard, and that it would be easier next time. What a load of crap. All you did was lower the experience points gained. Just so you know, lowering the experience points does not make it any easier, it just dosen't penalize us as much.

Happy New Year from Gree...same as the Old Year, lying to us, and ignoring us.

Ratma2001
01-01-2015, 03:23 PM
WOW !! Im gobsmacked that Gree would do such a Hanius thing ! I have been lurking for some months now and play when the wars are on and occasionally do some quests, but i have to agree about this , its a One step forward Two steps back approach, now they will blame some lame Tech who didnt flick a switch or throw a button somewhere ! As usual it will be "SomeOne Elses Fault" never a Mods, even though they can promise the world and give a Busted nickel!
Happy New Year with a Big Smack up inside the head for your troubles all.
just pains me to see things like this time and time again...continue to bash head against brick wall .
Step up to the plate Gree and Fix what should have never been Broke !

Gal
01-01-2015, 04:34 PM
In not sure how much more can be said about this event other than what's already be said. My top 10 team also has more openings that it should mostly due to "retirement" (aka frustration with the defects in the game and GREE's reluctance to fix anything that's broken such as this event).
In prior EBs, boss health plateaud at a certain level. Not so much in this one.

It pains me to see the actual money I've spent - and for what? To test and be ignored with the test results, then to see buggy and inconsiderate changes to be released. You all ought to be ashamed.

No real software company would ever put up with this type of BS. Y'all would have been fired ages ago. If not by ⌬ management, then by stockholders.

Happy screw year to you as well.

Jomama1
01-01-2015, 06:09 PM
Same here - I am founder of a top ten team dealing with defections and unhappimess over this.

Why lie????????

Yes 9K is less than 10.5K, but that is not the big fix you promised.


Do you want to kill this game? Do you hate money? Please explain the logic of chasing away folks dumb enough to spend cash on this travesty of a game.

Ashura
01-01-2015, 08:13 PM
Great work Gree.
XP do decrease and Boss Health do decrease, our equipment do get stronger.
I do take 1-2 hits less than before on bosses.

Voxker
01-01-2015, 08:43 PM
rip epic boss

Sandhawk
01-02-2015, 01:28 AM
Rip ka....

Mattman@WLD
01-02-2015, 08:23 AM
Great work Gree.
XP do decrease and Boss Health do decrease, our equipment do get stronger.
I do take 1-2 hits less than before on bosses.

I used to be able to kill the EB with 2 hits. I SPENT a TON of my MONEY to get to build a dominant account. Last event the Epic Boss was capped at 10,250 health points. the new cap is 9,500 health points. My damage on the boss DID NOT increase in anything GREE did (i.e. they did not improve the calculation to include our unit totals but still leave it based on only your max weapon attack + 1/2 your Heroic Skill points)!

SO... I went from 2 hits previously on the max Epic Boss, to 16 hits last event. This time around it will take me 13 Hits to kill the max boss (and most of this change is due to me putting most of my skill points into Heroic not because of any increase in attack). Another way to look at this is this way: Gree moved the boss health from 10,250 down to 9,500 points. This is 750 point reduction in the bosses max health. So this equates to ONLY 1 HIT reduction on the Epic Boss. The rest of the reduction is due to my heroic skill points. I have no new equipment that increased my attack from the previous event (because what GREE offers as war awards and inside of these ridiculous chests are ALL WEAKER than what most of us have).

So now the EB takes me almost 2 hours to kill a max health boss and GEMs have to be spent to finish this event (the timed parts). Some of us earned the right to do this for free with all the hard work and money we put in to build up our accounts over the last year.... LIARS LIARS LIARS. THIS CHANGE WAS NOTHING BUT A WAY TO GET US TO SPEND MORE AND MORE MONEY. LIARS LIARS LIARS.

SenorSwamp
01-02-2015, 09:25 AM
"Be patient with us"

~Mods

Vclone
01-02-2015, 10:07 AM
We will be making adjustments to the Epic Boss. It was too hard and we apologize and next Epic Boss you will see changed to make it easier. I do also want to address the players who think we are just going to keep making changes without taking into account our users feedback. We felt making the changes in the middle of EB would be a bad idea but we will make difficulty changes in the future so that our community is happy with the balance of Epic Boss.


We hope that you as the community will continue to support us and help us make this game better. We look forward to providing you with new experiences and adventures in 2015.


What do these statements really mean?

Jnsolberg
01-02-2015, 02:02 PM
What do these statements really mean?


Apparently, nothing!

the_bob
01-02-2015, 02:03 PM
Apparently, nothing!

It's all part of the smoke & mirrors game that Gree plays with us.

Toddiekska
01-02-2015, 02:26 PM
I've often wondered if Gree/KA-Dept. Is really a couple of Psychology students who somehow know mid-level app programming. Wait! The bell just rang again and I feel an urge to do something with my kingdom.

Keijen
01-02-2015, 03:28 PM
I've noticed the epic boss have been easier to kill.
I have been doing significantly more damage.

Ratma2001
01-02-2015, 04:58 PM
I find this absolutely appalling !!!!! this thread has been ongoing for over 2 days now and STILL NO MODS have commented, must just show how much they care about us (Customers) and our MONIES.....im really surprised that Gree are still in Buisiness ?? this is woeful. If I ran my Buisiness like this I would have had to close the doors 2 weeks after opening them! Terrible Management and lack of Customer Support and Moderators are still MIA ??
Its just plain simple...Rule No# 01 Look after your customers and they will look after you !
Rule No#02 Offer after sales support and service
Rule No#03 make sure the product is what states on the label
Rule No#04 everything else see Rule No# 01

Jomama1
01-02-2015, 05:04 PM
wafflejking is too busy laughing at us....

Valid or
01-02-2015, 05:34 PM
As most people are comparing to last one.
I have to ask, did you spend the skill points the same?
Since they reset the skill point, this might make a difference.
I noticed they did lower the xp gain. But can't tell if the boss health was changed, with the skil point reset can't go by how meny we dropped last tim.
I am wrong, my gold boss hit is = then total attack on my gear.
No stats, not even hero(all tho it says adds damage) makes a difference, like it's not working.

Zee985
01-03-2015, 07:19 AM
No longer enjoy EB... GreeD are just asking us to spend more and more after you build up your stats...
No positive change will be made towards the player interest, Gree are only interested in increasing their profit... QUIT THE GAME ASAP!!

Metsrock9931
01-03-2015, 11:25 AM
As most people are comparing to last one.
I have to ask, did you spend the skill points the same?
Since they reset the skill point, this might make a difference.
I noticed they did lower the xp gain. But can't tell if the boss health was changed, with the skil point reset can't go by how meny we dropped last tim.
I am wrong, my gold boss hit is = then total attack on my gear.
No stats, not even hero(all tho it says adds damage) makes a difference, like it's not working.

For me I placed an additional 100 skill points into hero and I was able to get 5 more levels higher before a second hit was needed, I have the highest ATTACK weapon as well. For my stats I should be able to get to level 50 easily but struggle getting there. The crafting chests are a joke, wouldn't be bad if more items would drop, but still under its current plan it is a joke. Have 5 of 6 of the current highest items. Before last war my ATTACK stats were 2500 and after war it dropped to 2025. Equipment stats dropped 15,000 points as well. Why work to increase stats if Gree is going to drop everything backwards. The game has become non-competitive with no direction. Top 150 guild as well but forget about completing most of the quests, we mainly are left with raid boss and war in this game. The two favorites that Gree will eventually screw up as well.

Metsrock9931
01-03-2015, 11:30 AM
I find this absolutely appalling !!!!! this thread has been ongoing for over 2 days now and STILL NO MODS have commented, must just show how much they care about us (Customers) and our MONIES

I don't think any of us are surprised, we all had hope that they would eventually care for the customers, that is our fault, Gree hope you understand we take fault for this, we are proud members that take responsibility, please learn from the posts, you will not please everyone, but as the posts show you are causing your own problems by not following through with the 90%negative and suggestions posts, compared to the 10%positive (this number is being nice). Really have not seen any positive posts.

Jomama1
01-03-2015, 12:21 PM
The icing on the cake is combining this so called "easier" eb with a super expensive ltb. This way we have to minimize gold hits in order to save money for LTB. This effectively makes the eb much harder than last time.


Waffleking - are you aware enough to understand this interaction? I am quite curious. As either you intentionally screwed us and lied to us or you don't understand your own game. Which is it? Maybe both.

Valid or
01-03-2015, 12:26 PM
The icing on the cake is combining this so called "easier" eb with a super expensive ltb. This way we have to minimize gold hits in order to save money for LTB. This effectively makes the eb much harder than last time.


Waffleking - are you aware enough to understand this interaction? I am quite curious. As either you intentionally screwed us and lied to us or you don't understand your own game. Which is it? Maybe both.
I for one liked the way they combined the events. Made a collect 60 feel feasible, got 40+ from bosses.
Boss health is still too high. At 70 now, and think that's gettting close to be being done.

Acadian
01-03-2015, 12:38 PM
I agree, getting the opened crates instead of crates is very nice, but by all means will you guys add a summon button to this quest? Just like guild bosses. I can't stand how much time it takes to randomly spawn the dang thing sometimes. Then occasionally I have to log off and log in just to notice it spawned 18 minutes ago and if I am on one of the higher level ones, that is less hits/time to finish it. We absolutely hate having to randomly spawn them. With all the lag since you upgraded graphics it seems even harder for my phone to spawn it w/o losing 5 minutes of the time before I can even get my first hit in

Metsrock9931
01-03-2015, 03:48 PM
Here is another issue, if I increase my hero strength with 2 skill points wouldn't my ATTACK against boss go up????? Was 689 before increase, added skill points and closed the app and reopened. Hit boss again and guess what it is still 689. What a damn joke!!!!!!!!!!! Boss increases in stats each level and when we level we stay the same???? Can you now say there is a problem GREE, accept your responsibility.

the_bob
01-03-2015, 04:00 PM
Here is another issue, if I increase my hero strength with 2 skill points wouldn't my ATTACK against boss go up????? Was 689 before increase, added skill points and closed the app and reopened. Hit boss again and guess what it is still 689. What a damn joke!!!!!!!!!!! Boss increases in stats each level and when we level we stay the same???? Can you now say there is a problem GREE, accept your responsibility.

Same happened to me. I put 2 points into HS and my boss damage didn't change. Here's the thing, if I do the formula of Equip + (1/2 HS) then my damage is correct now, but not before I put the 2 HS in. Whatever. It's Gree. I don't expect anything to work right anymore.

Jomama1
01-03-2015, 04:35 PM
I think some players are not getting the point - I am not referring to the box event (I suppose openings are nice). I am referring to the building quest which will take a ton of cash to complete. If you spend your cash on epoic boss you wont be able to buy all the building levels. Perhaps this is not clear to everyone yet.

Jomama1
01-03-2015, 04:38 PM
But the real issue is still that people spent tons of real cash to get goo at epic boss and now face an event almost ten times as hard for the big spender This is simply wrong. Gree pledged to fix it - they did not. Why would anyone incest money in your game knowing that Gree will simply change the rules and screw them. We anxiously await grees response.

Valid or
01-03-2015, 05:05 PM
Same happened to me. I put 2 points into HS and my boss damage didn't change. Here's the thing, if I do the formula of Equip + (1/2 HS) then my damage is correct now, but not before I put the 2 HS in. Whatever. It's Gree. I don't expect anything to work right anymore.
My boss hit useing gold is the same as adding all the attack points on my gear together, both 714.
Hero strength seems to be not working, if it's in the equation.(217 hero is wht I have)

Scubdog
01-04-2015, 11:01 PM
This sucks. Went from two free hits to 10+ gold hits to kill boss 100. If there is an easy way to kill off an event this is it. Shame on you Gree. You made a horrible decision, yet again. Would also like to point out the lack of health potion drops. Nothing like an extra kick to the head while I'm down. Can't wait until RB starts. I'm almost hoping you all FUBAR that event just to see the nuclear fall out.

Jerusalem
01-04-2015, 11:40 PM
Just had to visit the forum out of sheer curiosity and to read the highly anticipated uproar about the now dismal and utterly loathsome event that is the EB. As appalling as the lies are and as laughable as the adjustments were, I find it equally sad on our part as a community to expect any better from Gree.

My best advice is to resolve to transition away from Gree games or don't take it so seriously. I understand that peeps have invested thousands of dollars and time on the game, as have I, but, like all investments, you have to dump or sell when the rate of return no longer warrants continuing. To be so upset over it isn't worth it, truly.

I'm very thankful for having met so many wonderful peeps in the game, and am fortunate to play with them in another game in addition to KA. Don't stick with this game simply because you put so much money into it. Stick with it because you still love it. Otherwise, take your friends and find another game and have a good time playing together for a change. As for the money and time spent, be happy that, for awhile, it was worth it, and that the many new friends you encountered are priceless and who will be there outside of the game, regardless whether you continue to play or not.

I wish everyone in the KA Community a happy new year, and wish you luck in finding happiness in and out of the game!

Skyraiders
01-05-2015, 02:13 AM
Just had to visit the forum out of sheer curiosity and to read the highly anticipated uproar about the now dismal and utterly loathsome event that is the EB. As appalling as the lies are and as laughable as the adjustments were, I find it equally sad on our part as a community to expect any better from Gree.

My best advice is to resolve to transition away from Gree games or don't take it so seriously. I understand that peeps have invested thousands of dollars and time on the game, as have I, but, like all investments, you have to dump or sell when the rate of return no longer warrants continuing. To be so upset over it isn't worth it, truly.

I'm very thankful for having met so many wonderful peeps in the game, and am fortunate to play with them in another game in addition to KA. Don't stick with this game simply because you put so much money into it. Stick with it because you still love it. Otherwise, take your friends and find another game and have a good time playing together for a change. As for the money and time spent, be happy that, for awhile, it was worth it, and that the many new friends you encountered are priceless and who will be there outside of the game, regardless whether you continue to play or not.

I wish everyone in the KA Community a happy new year, and wish you luck in finding happiness in and out of the game!

+1...and 1 and 1 and 1...

Ryosaeba
01-05-2015, 03:24 AM
Wait a minute. So Gree did decrease the boss HP and XP but you all are still complaining? Are you all expecting Gree to make this game free for everyone? What is the point of quests if everyone can easily finish? Then everyone will just all be equal and Gree wouldn't be able to make money and continue to provide this game.

I think most of you all forget that this is still mostly a Pay-to-Win game. Personally, I welcome this change. Previously, I would never be able to get 100 bosses without spending anything. I always top out at around 50-60 (with the exception of that one where the boss HP stayed the same).

In any case, this game is still a "The more you spend, the more you win" game, and it's always a continuous work in progress. No changes are permanent. Though I do see this game trying to move into the casino type with all these treasures chests. Maybe in the future they will have a "Increase Rare/Uncommon Treasure Rate" prize or something.

Uberfauker
01-05-2015, 10:40 AM
Wait a minute. So Gree did decrease the boss HP and XP but you all are still complaining? Are you all expecting Gree to make this game free for everyone? What is the point of quests if everyone can easily finish? Then everyone will just all be equal and Gree wouldn't be able to make money and continue to provide this game.

I think most of you all forget that this is still mostly a Pay-to-Win game. Personally, I welcome this change. Previously, I would never be able to get 100 bosses without spending anything. I always top out at around 50-60 (with the exception of that one where the boss HP stayed the same).

In any case, this game is still a "The more you spend, the more you win" game, and it's always a continuous work in progress. No changes are permanent. Though I do see this game trying to move into the casino type with all these treasures chests. Maybe in the future they will have a "Increase Rare/Uncommon Treasure Rate" prize or something.

Wow...just how ignorant can a person be?

Valid or
01-05-2015, 10:49 AM
Wait a minute. So Gree did decrease the boss HP and XP but you all are still complaining? Are you all expecting Gree to make this game free for everyone? What is the point of quests if everyone can easily finish? Then everyone will just all be equal and Gree wouldn't be able to make money and continue to provide this game.

I think most of you all forget that this is still mostly a Pay-to-Win game. Personally, I welcome this change. Previously, I would never be able to get 100 bosses without spending anything. I always top out at around 50-60 (with the exception of that one where the boss HP stayed the same).

In any case, this game is still a "The more you spend, the more you win" game, and it's always a continuous work in progress. No changes are permanent. Though I do see this game trying to move into the casino type with all these treasures chests. Maybe in the future they will have a "Increase Rare/Uncommon Treasure Rate" prize or something.
I think in most cases here people wasn't able to notice a difference in the boss health. It was a small change around 1000 on the lvl 100.
Others are not liking the change from their army stats no longer counting, before the change people with 500+million could compleat easy... Now tho they have to work at it.
My personal issue is the points we spent in hero strength dont seem to be working, I hit the boss for the total of my gears attack. 726(upgraded a piece was 714).
If my gear adds up to 726 attack, and I have 217 in hero strength...how dose hero work into it, as I don't see it. I hit for my gears attack alone 726. No hero in there.

SenorSwamp
01-05-2015, 11:03 AM
Wait a minute. So Gree did decrease the boss HP and XP but you all are still complaining?


Yes. Making it go from 2 hits for 16 hits for many (an 8x increase), then dropping it from 16 to 15 (a .063x decrease) still leaves something to be desired. No color commentary is necessary. I think the numbers speak for themselves



Are you all expecting Gree to make this game free for everyone? What is the point of quests if everyone can easily finish?

No one said either thing. The efforts to reduce the conversation to this level of simplicity is absurd.


Personally, I welcome this change.



So you are the one. Good for you! Then it must be excellent for all.




In any case, this game is still a "The more you spend, the more you win" game

And this is why people are mad. They spent and now are losing. You summed up the entire argument right there.

Valid or
01-05-2015, 03:50 PM
I hve to add this..altho I know not everyone has had this experience with the epic boss event.
On the old system when it was by army stats and the boss health was gaged by player level. At lvl 158 I could kill about 20-25 bosses total. On the new system I got 80 down.(always believed one must have the best gear one could get, so it paid off when the change came. it is a pvp game..would one go into combat without their kit or gun?)
But I do not belive it is working as intended and needs some bugs worked out.

Waffleking
01-05-2015, 06:23 PM
Hello Kingdom Age Players

I apologize for my late response to this thread. I would like to address all your comments about the Epic Boss.

First off, I would like to apologize if you feel like my comments were incorrect from what you expected. I stated that we would make the boss easier not that we would return the boss to the way it was. We are trying to find a balance between the old epic boss and the new revamp. We can not go back to the way it was. Epic Boss was a very unbalanced event and if we left the event alone and did nothing we would have to remove it from the calendar.

We are trying to find a happy medium where you as players can enjoy the event while still being challenged AND keep the event competitive for all players. I understand you are frustrated that you can not breeze through the Epic Boss anymore but the alternative is to remove this event entirely which I believe is not what our players want.

I know changes can be difficult but we are trying to find a balance between our players needs and running a business. We do value your feedback and participation in our events and we are trying to make sure our players needs are met as well as trying to keep all our events current and challenging. This is in no way meant to slight any of the hard work all our players have put into this game. This change was made so we can keep this event on the calendar and continue to provide our users with daily content they can enjoy.

Cloud22
01-05-2015, 06:53 PM
I am glad to finally see a response, but I'm not sure I understand why you would of had to remove the EB if it was kept the old style. That does not make much sense to me. But if you insist on this new stlye and looking for a more balanced approach, then you going to have to give out more weapons, Armors, and ect, with actual better stats then what we already have and can craft. Especially for gem events like RB and conquest indi rewards. Also maybe making top 3 guild rewards for conquest good weapons or items with bonuses to make so heavy gemmers get more of a advantage again.

Ashura
01-05-2015, 07:03 PM
At first I was so unhappy of the change which I'm doing 3 free hits on lvl 100 EB boss and now doing solid 17 gold hits. I think the change is good and gree had lower slightly xp and health. Many of us still doable to finish lvl 100 with lots of patience.
It was a boring EB event last time and now it's more challenging.

Valid or
01-05-2015, 10:24 PM
I am glad to finally see a response, but I'm not sure I understand why you would of had to remove the EB if it kept the old style. That does not make much sense to me. But if you insist on this new stlye and looking for a more balanced approach, then you going to have to give out more weapons, Armors, and ect, with actual better stats then what we already have and can craft. Especially for gem events like RB and conquest indi rewards. Also maybe making top 3 rewards for conquest good weapons or items with bonuses to make so heavy gemmers get more of a advantage again.
I fully agree for end rewards on large events if gear is the reward, then it needs to be better than we will be able to craft with a lvl 10 workshop.
We do need a lot of gear, would help lots if they would drop from critters on the maps..or maps dedicated to the new gear.

the_bob
01-05-2015, 10:43 PM
First off, I would like to apologize if you feel like my comments were incorrect from what you expected.

Translation: We goalpost-shifted again, suck it up.

truthteller
01-05-2015, 11:11 PM
Hello Kingdom Age Players

I apologize for my late response to this thread. I would like to address all your comments about the Epic Boss.

First off, I would like to apologize if you feel like my comments were incorrect from what you expected. I stated that we would make the boss easier not that we would return the boss to the way it was. We are trying to find a balance between the old epic boss and the new revamp. We can not go back to the way it was. Epic Boss was a very unbalanced event and if we left the event alone and did nothing we would have to remove it from the calendar.

what we see: After making players spend TONS of real cash to build stats and be able to kill EB, we realize, that we were no longer able to make players spend more hard earned cash

We are trying to find a happy medium where you as players can enjoy the event while still being challenged AND keep the event competitive for all players. I understand you are frustrated that you can not breeze through the Epic Boss anymore but the alternative is to remove this event entirely which I believe is not what our players want.

Yes we understand the EB needs to be a bit more challenging but not nearly impossible to achieve, perhaps drop the gold hit to a max of 50k at level 100, and take HP down to a max of 7,000 at level 100

I know changes can be difficult but we are trying to find a balance between our players needs and running a business. We do value your feedback and participation in our events and we are trying to make sure our players needs are met as well as trying to keep all our events current and challenging. This is in no way meant to slight any of the hard work all our players have put into this game. This change was made so we can keep this event on the calendar and continue to provide our users with daily content they can enjoy.

again, we were. not making any money with EB, so we thought that only using equipment for damage will make players once again spend TONS of cash to complete, and who know when once again they reach the point to kill it for free, we will then perhaps only use hero strength for EB damage, so people will spend on buying the skill reset coupons every cycle for EB

MW Flake
01-06-2015, 12:57 AM
I'm sorry to intrude KA players, but I feel I must comment as you are not alone in this.

So because Gree ramped up the stat inflation, it was no longer able to make any money on EB, and now had to find some way to do that or have to kill it in favor of some event that did make money. Ok, fine. But how well did it really work out for you by taking it from almost cometely free for all to nearly impossible for all without large expenditures of gems? Whatever the timeframe was on the stat inflation, it should have been at least half of that ramping these changes back up, because instead of losing some money for a little while longer, you've instead lost a lot of it permanently as so many across a number of your games have said screw it all and just quit.

Once again Gree, job well done.

Lord Vyper
01-06-2015, 05:45 AM
Not really sure about how I should rate the new EB event. I was able to finish gem free and I can still do it even if it takes some more hits now. Yes I need refills for the timed bosses but I get more refills as rewards than I need.
I completey understand that those players that have been able to rush through this event and farm lvl 100 bosses at the end for rewards are dissapointed now.
I would call me a mid-range gemmer. What do I buy for my money? Fun... like a firework for new-year... I buy gems and burn them because it's fun - I don't buy a permanent god-mode for the game - but of course I want to get something in exchange for my gems. What I like about the new EB is that more of my guild mates are able to finish 100 bosses - this is definitely motivating them. Before the changes where made most players couldn't even think about finishing EB (completely different to MW) - with the changes much more are able to do so... this is bad for the top player but good for many others (most of them also gem-player).

Ryosaeba
01-06-2015, 08:34 AM
Yes. Making it go from 2 hits for 16 hits for many (an 8x increase), then dropping it from 16 to 15 (a .063x decrease) still leaves something to be desired. No color commentary is necessary. I think the numbers speak for themselves

Look mate, they are adjusting it. What's the point if everyone can kill the boss with 2-3-4 hits? Why not just give away the prizes for free? So now it takes 15 hits (for you). What's the matter with that? It's still totally doable without gems. Do you feel you shouldn't put any effort into any quests? Again, what's the point if that is the case? Heck, the boss even give potions as rewards! I have been using some of them to kill the bosses. Took a lot of time but zero gems to 100. So indeed, the numbers do speak for themselves. It's not easy as giving it away, it takes effort and time (as it should), and it's doable without gems. Can't complain.


So you are the one. Good for you! Then it must be excellent for all.
No. I'm not the only one. Most in my guild (top 25) was able to finish without gems. Again, it took some effort, and gold, but still able to finish gem free. That's a win in my book.


And this is why people are mad. They spent and now are losing. You summed up the entire argument right there.
I don't see how they can be mad. So instead of breezing through a 5 day event in 1 day, they have to put some time and effort in. Waffleking summed it up nicely. They are trying to balance the game for everyone. In the past, while you may be able to fly though EB, a lot can never make 100. Not even with some gem usage. Then you get those people complaining. I don't think this game can ever please everyone. There will always be something that will piss someone off. The best they can do is please more people then they piss off.

Ryosaeba
01-06-2015, 08:50 AM
Not really sure about how I should rate the new EB event. I was able to finish gem free and I can still do it even if it takes some more hits now. Yes I need refills for the timed bosses but I get more refills as rewards than I need.

Bingo. The boss gives potions that you can use to kill more bosses.


I completey understand that those players that have been able to rush through this event and farm lvl 100 bosses at the end for rewards are dissapointed now.
There was a time when EB was a breeze for minis and impossible for top players. Most L180+ couldn't even get pass L20 boss.


What I like about the new EB is that more of my guild mates are able to finish 100 bosses - this is definitely motivating them.
Exactly what I got from my guild mates too. It took effort, a lot of effort. But it was rewarding. If it were easy, I don't think we would care that much. This is a game after all. What's a game if it doesn't present a challenge?


Before the changes where made most players couldn't even think about finishing RB (completely different to MW) - with the changes much more are able to do so... this is bad for the top player but good for many others (most of them also gem-player).

Not really bad for top players. The prizes given out didn't have +atk/+def bonuses. Just a based unit with a very minor 2% CP points and -5% cool down for box events. The base unit is nothing to write home about. So the weaker players won't catch up to them because of this event. But everyone who put in some effort can benefit a little for other events.

Uberfauker
01-06-2015, 10:03 AM
I don't see how they can be mad. So instead of breezing through a 5 day event in 1 day, they have to put some time and effort in. Waffleking summed it up nicely. They are trying to balance the game for everyone. In the past, while you may be able to fly though EB, a lot can never make 100. Not even with some gem usage. Then you get those people complaining. I don't think this game can ever please everyone. There will always be something that will piss someone off. The best they can do is please more people then they piss off.

Most of the players that spend money on this game are business owners or successful professionals in their profession...busy people with no time spend on some stupid boss event that takes 5 days to complete. Most of us used gems because we wanted to complete events early so we can go back to doing what we what we do best...making money. We built our accounts up to be strong enough to kill a lvl 100 boss with one free hit and now we have been reset. Most of us who don't have the time to spend killing bosses for 5 days are not completing this event because we refuse to spend money on an event we should be completing for free (because we already spent money to build our accounts up, thought I might say this again you may have missed the point).

It is sad that you don't realize that when players like us leave this game you will too.

Mattman@WLD
01-06-2015, 12:20 PM
Hello Kingdom Age Players

I apologize for my late response to this thread. I would like to address all your comments about the Epic Boss.

First off, I would like to apologize if you feel like my comments were incorrect from what you expected. I stated that we would make the boss easier not that we would return the boss to the way it was. We are trying to find a balance between the old epic boss and the new revamp. We can not go back to the way it was. Epic Boss was a very unbalanced event and if we left the event alone and did nothing we would have to remove it from the calendar.

We are trying to find a happy medium where you as players can enjoy the event while still being challenged AND keep the event competitive for all players. I understand you are frustrated that you can not breeze through the Epic Boss anymore but the alternative is to remove this event entirely which I believe is not what our players want.

I know changes can be difficult but we are trying to find a balance between our players needs and running a business. We do value your feedback and participation in our events and we are trying to make sure our players needs are met as well as trying to keep all our events current and challenging. This is in no way meant to slight any of the hard work all our players have put into this game. This change was made so we can keep this event on the calendar and continue to provide our users with daily content they can enjoy.

Thank you for your courageous reply!

I will offer this, can you please just be straight up with us? Your reply this time around is as close as I have seen GREE come to presenting us the truth. The reality is GREE is a public company and it is underperforming (see the 3 year stock drop and P/E ratio - not a pretty picture compared to your rivals)!

https://www.google.com/#q=TYO:3632

We understand you are in business to make a profit and this is important aspect we all respect. While you appreciate that we enjoy the game, your focus and loyalty is not to us, but to the share holders of your company. Therefore, your suggestion that EB would have been removed if you did not change it, is getting closer to the heart of the matter... Can you just speak plainly and state Epic Boss was not generating enough revenue to remain on the calendar? Your soul purpose for offering any event to the KA community is to drive new revenues for GREE International, INC. If a game (like LAW) or sub-product fails to meet the revenue guild lines, GREE will need to change it or remove it (this is why I soon expect you will "rebalance" Raid Boss). Also, when you (GREE) talk about rebalancing, it is not to balance the event for the population (so free players feel they have a chance to compete with people spending real money). What you mean to say is you are re-balancing a sub-product within KA to meet your primary goal of generating gem spending (i.e. generating revenues for the company)! So to take my own advice (speak plainly) you reset a popular event in KA to increase the money we need to spend to complete it. Now if you said that plain and simple, we could at least respect it!

Jomama1
01-06-2015, 02:43 PM
Waffle - a very minor decrease in difficulty is nothing like a balance - stop using meaningless words. You claimed recognized a problem and made a fix so miniscule it was worthless, especially when combined with an expensive LTB which made us avoid gold hits (do you recognize the connection?)

Uber is right - many of us spent tine and gems so we don't have to do it now. you are telling peole that gemming is woorthless because you will just make it hard again.

SenorSwamp
01-06-2015, 03:08 PM
Look mate, they are adjusting it. What's the point if everyone can kill the boss with 2-3-4 hits? Why not just give away the prizes for free? So now it takes 15 hits (for you). What's the matter with that? It's still totally doable without gems. Do you feel you shouldn't put any effort into any quests? Again, what's the point if that is the case? Heck, the boss even give potions as rewards! I have been using some of them to kill the bosses. Took a lot of time but zero gems to 100. So indeed, the numbers do speak for themselves. It's not easy as giving it away, it takes effort and time (as it should), and it's doable without gems. Can't complain.



Sigh. I never asked for it to be free. I simply stated that increase of 8x and a decrease of .06x were not commensurate. The algorithm/methodology has to more nuanced than that. Again, this is an attempt on the part of the respondent (in this case you) to reduce my position to the point of absurdity.

I am simply suggesting that for people who spent years and thousands of dollars developing something, pulling the proverbial rug out from under them in this way is simply not kosher. Perhaps there could be a model that allows you to choose your method of attack--i.e. you can use your old "attack" or the new "hero strength." This would allow those that have already invested to enjoy the fruits of their investment and give the new people an opportunity to invest in-kind. Perhaps this is a bad idea. I don't know. I do know that the model Gree resorted to is ridiculous in that they went from alienating one portion of their customer base to doing the same thing to the other side.



No. I'm not the only one. Most in my guild (top 25) was able to finish without gems. Again, it took some effort, and gold, but still able to finish gem free. That's a win in my book.


Some effort? aka around the clock playing for four days! That is reasonable if you are new and/or building an account. If you have already put in this time and effort at some earlier stage, why should you be doing it all over again at this level of painstaking tedium? For the 20th time, I am not asking for free and easy. I am asking for a more sophisticated approach to this than simply a zero or a one. Gree has to be better than a binary conversation.




I don't see how they can be mad. So instead of breezing through a 5 day event in 1 day, they have to put some time and effort in. Waffleking summed it up nicely. They are trying to balance the game for everyone. In the past, while you may be able to fly though EB, a lot can never make 100. Not even with some gem usage. Then you get those people complaining. I don't think this game can ever please everyone. There will always be something that will piss someone off. The best they can do is please more people then they piss off.

Once again, you miss the point that these people that were "flying" through it have already spent both time and money getting to this position to do this. There is some expectation that they should stay somewhere in that ballpark (i.e. closer than the delta between +8x and -.063x), since they paid for it. Gree needs to be better at creating solutions and not simply moving the problem to another stakeholder group.

Vclone
01-06-2015, 03:34 PM
I am glad to finally see a response, but I'm not sure I understand why you would of had to remove the EB if it was kept the old style. That does not make much sense to me. But if you insist on this new stlye and looking for a more balanced approach, then you going to have to give out more weapons, Armors, and ect, with actual better stats then what we already have and can craft. Especially for gem events like RB and conquest indi rewards. Also maybe making top 3 guild rewards for conquest good weapons or items with bonuses to make so heavy gemmers get more of a advantage again.

I was writing my own response and realized that it was all said here. We need weapons and armor to raise our strength again. Some foot and head equipment drops would be nice too.

Jomama1
01-06-2015, 04:38 PM
Yes - it seems insane not to have indy war rewards that matter.

Ryosaeba
01-06-2015, 09:44 PM
Most of the players that spend money on this game are business owners or successful professionals in their profession...busy people with no time spend on some stupid boss event that takes 5 days to complete. Most of us used gems because we wanted to complete events early so we can go back to doing what we what we do best...making money. We built our accounts up to be strong enough to kill a lvl 100 boss with one free hit and now we have been reset. Most of us who don't have the time to spend killing bosses for 5 days are not completing this event because we refuse to spend money on an event we should be completing for free (because we already spent money to build our accounts up, thought I might say this again you may have missed the point).

It is sad that you don't realize that when players like us leave this game you will too.

Again, what's the point of playing a game if you 'purchase God mode?' It's like "Oh look! I purchased the Sword of 1000 Truths and now I'm invincible! Muhahahaha. Throw any quests at me Gree! I will finish them in an hour!"

You see where I'm getting at? Where's the part that you actually play? So you log in, make a hit, and log off. Is that really consider playing? People play hours on end non-stop in games like WoW. Heck, people even die from exhaustion from playing WoW. The total time spent on this is a mere fraction of those real games.

If Gree kept it the way you liked, they might as well just give you the prizes the moment you log in. I mean how dare they make you tap tap tap on your phone/pad to get a prize...

I apologize for my silly sarcasm but if a game doesn't present a challenge, it's not really a game any more. And truth is, if this game is gone, I will just have more free time with other games. I don't live and die by a game, nor do I define myself by a game.

What Gree should of done is canceled EB like WaffaleKing suggested and make a new event, call it: "Ultimate Boss" and then implement the new balance settings. Would people complain then? Of course.. There will always be people complaining, but at lease Gree can say it's a completely different event. :p

truthteller
01-06-2015, 10:04 PM
Again, what's the point of playing a game if you 'purchase God mode?' It's like "Oh look! I purchased the Sword of 1000 Truths and now I'm invincible! Muhahahaha. Throw any quests at me Gree! I will finish them in an hour!"

You see where I'm getting at? Where's the part that you actually play? So you log in, make a hit, and log off. Is that really consider playing? People play hours on end non-stop in games like WoW. Heck, people even die from exhaustion from playing WoW. The total time spent on this is a mere fraction of those real games.

If Gree kept it the way you liked, they might as well just give you the prizes the moment you log in. I mean how dare they make you tap tap tap on your phone/pad to get a prize...

I apologize for my silly sarcasm but if a game doesn't present a challenge, it's not really a game any more. And truth is, if this game is gone, I will just have more free time with other games. I don't live and die by a game, nor do I define myself by a game.

What Gree should of done is canceled EB like WaffaleKing suggested and make a new event, call it: "Ultimate Boss" and then implement the new balance settings. Would people complain then? Of course.. There will always be people complaining, but at lease Gree can say it's a completely different event. :p

wow dude, so please clarify, for you a game is only challenging if an events makes you have to be online 24/7 for 4 days in order to achieve the final prize????

Captain Buck Slayer
01-06-2015, 10:15 PM
Who cares, KA is screwed anyway!

Ryosaeba
01-06-2015, 10:30 PM
wow dude, so please clarify, for you a game is only challenging if an events makes you have to be online 24/7 for 4 days in order to achieve the final prize????

I'm assuming you're trying to be sarcastic like me? :p Seriously though, if you add up all the time you're actually on the game, it's really not that much. You get on, make my few hits, then get off and wait to regen. Unless you count the regen time as "playing" as well but I don't. I do other things like watch TV, talk to the old lady, or play other games.

The only thing that really takes time is war and raiding. But of course, raiding is optional and war time only happens once every 3 weeks. Even then most players get on, use their 4 hits then get off to regen.

If you're talking particularly about this event, I made 100 in 5 days. Here's my timings for this event during the tougher last few bosses:

I log in, go to Crossroads or make a trial kill to get boss to show. - Actual play time 1 minute at most.
I take 3 hits on boss and wait 1 minute so I can make 2 more hits. - Actual play time 2 minutes at most.
I then wait to regen waiting about 13 minutes and take 2 more hits. - Actual play time 1 minute at most. Repeat this until dead.
Total actual play time to kill a boss, 4-10 minutes at most.

I wait to regen for about 40-50 minutes and repeat the above to kill another boss. During this time, I may make a few kills for trials and that will take a few minutes, maybe 5 or so before I have to regen my energy.

I guess it may seem like 24/7 since you need to get on every 12-15 minutes but I'm able to multi task easily so I don't feel the regen times are actually play times since I'm always doing other stuff.

truthteller
01-07-2015, 12:18 AM
I'm assuming you're trying to be sarcastic like me? :p Seriously though, if you add up all the time you're actually on the game, it's really not that much. You get on, make my few hits, then get off and wait to regen. Unless you count the regen time as "playing" as well but I don't. I do other things like watch TV, talk to the old lady, or play other games.

The only thing that really takes time is war and raiding. But of course, raiding is optional and war time only happens once every 3 weeks. Even then most players get on, use their 4 hits then get off to regen.

If you're talking particularly about this event, I made 100 in 5 days. Here's my timings for this event during the tougher last few bosses:

I log in, go to Crossroads or make a trial kill to get boss to show. - Actual play time 1 minute at most.
I take 3 hits on boss and wait 1 minute so I can make 2 more hits. - Actual play time 2 minutes at most.
I then wait to regen waiting about 13 minutes and take 2 more hits. - Actual play time 1 minute at most. Repeat this until dead.
Total actual play time to kill a boss, 4-10 minutes at most.

I wait to regen for about 40-50 minutes and repeat the above to kill another boss. During this time, I may make a few kills for trials and that will take a few minutes, maybe 5 or so before I have to regen my energy.

I guess it may seem like 24/7 since you need to get on every 12-15 minutes but I'm able to multi task easily so I don't feel the regen times are actually play times since I'm always doing other stuff.

Ok, so,you are one that apparently does not work for a living, nor has to support a family or pay a mortgage seems you apparently have so much free time

you also seem to say that you do not finish EB up to boss 100 or the legendary, since you are saying it takes you 13 minutes to REGEN for two hits, and if your damage on EB is let's say 750 like most with high equipment, you still need 11 gold hits and 2 free hits to kill a level 100 boss, so with your REGEN of 13 minutes for 2 hits,me hich means you need 91 minutes (at least) to kills each level 100 boss, there are a total of 36 level 100 bosses times 1:31 hours per kills equals 54 hours just to kills the 36 level 100 based on your REGEN time, that is 2 days and 6 hours, and let's assume you need your 8 hour beauty sleep, we add 16 more hours, so total to kill the 36 level 100 is basically 3 days playing non stops every 13 minutes to make your 2 hits in between REGEN time and of course your 2 sets of beauty sleep, and then let's say it only takes you 1 day to make it pass bosses 1 to 99 (including your 8 hours beauty sleep) is a total of 4 days, so "yes" you have "2" days to shuffle around and "slow" on EB killings...........of course you have to set your timer for every 13 minutes for three days unless you spend gems or have lots of health packs

I use to kill the level 100 with 8 gold kills, and now takes me 15 hits, so it is possible to finish it for free, if you have a great REGEN time, still you need to puts lots of hours (even if you set a timer every 13 or 7 minutes)

Lord Vyper
01-07-2015, 01:07 AM
Most of the players that spend money on this game are business owners or successful professionals in their profession...busy people with no time spend on some stupid boss event that takes 5 days to complete. Most of us used gems because we wanted to complete events early so we can go back to doing what we what we do best...making money.

So just to understand it.... You spend money for a game to avoid playing it?? This is a strange concept for me... (sorry.. this had to be :D )

Ryosaeba
01-07-2015, 01:10 AM
Ok, so,you are one that apparently does not work for a living, nor has to support a family or pay a mortgage seems you apparently have so much free time

you also seem to say that you do not finish EB up to boss 100 or the legendary, since you are saying it takes you 13 minutes to REGEN for two hits, and if your damage on EB is let's say 750 like most with high equipment, you still need 11 gold hits and 2 free hits to kill a level 100 boss, so with your REGEN of 13 minutes for 2 hits,me hich means you need 91 minutes (at least) to kills each level 100 boss, there are a total of 36 level 100 bosses times 1:31 hours per kills equals 54 hours just to kills the 36 level 100 based on your REGEN time, that is 2 days and 6 hours, and let's assume you need your 8 hour beauty sleep, we add 16 more hours, so total to kill the 36 level 100 is basically 3 days playing non stops every 13 minutes to make your 2 hits in between REGEN time and of course your 2 sets of beauty sleep, and then let's say it only takes you 1 day to make it pass bosses 1 to 99 (including your 8 hours beauty sleep) is a total of 4 days, so "yes" you have "2" days to shuffle around and "slow" on EB killings...........of course you have to set your timer for every 13 minutes for three days unless you spend gems or have lots of health packs

I use to kill the level 100 with 8 gold kills, and now takes me 15 hits, so it is possible to finish it for free, if you have a great REGEN time, still you need to puts lots of hours (even if you set a timer every 13 or 7 minutes)

I only did up to L100 and did not care about legendary because of XP. I'm only a L152 and do watch my XP. Also, you didn't account for the free potions that gets dropped. I used some of those to help me finish faster. The reason it took 5 days is because I sleep and eat and work and social and do other stuff.

This game has never been about how long you can stay on but how often you can get on. It's been this way since the beginning. It's just been intensified now.

Put it this way, if you were Gree, would you keep an event going that doesn't make ANY money? Yes, you spend before and build up your character. So does that mean Gree should forgo future earning? That is really bad business for them. You're suppose to spend money. Lots of it to finish events fast and be top dog. That's the way this game is designed from the beginning. If I wanted to finish legendary, I would of needed to spend some potions/gems. But I'm the kind that don't need to finish every single event and am OK with being an un-elite.

Personally, I think this has become a better game then when it started (I was playing before guilds started). It's more challenging and more quests are finish-able without spending. It's actually motivating to play.

And please don't assume anything regarding my personal life. I own my own business and I work at home. I have a wife and no debt except a mortgage.

I'm sure this isn't the "final" say on EB or any event. Most likely, tweaks will still be made but don't hope for a free ride just because you spend before. The game model is to keep you spending.

Ryosaeba
01-07-2015, 01:29 AM
So just to understand it.... You spend money for a game to avoid playing it?? This is a strange concept for me... (sorry.. this had to be :D )

I wish I can +1 on here... :D

Jomama1
01-07-2015, 03:39 AM
Did you spend money - or are you just happy that you are now the same as those that did? The idea is if you spend money you get better. Quite simple really.


Gree's business model depends on those believing this.

Lord Vyper
01-07-2015, 04:01 AM
Did you spend money - or are you just happy that you are now the same as those that did? The idea is if you spend money you get better. Quite simple really.



I did and do :D
And the concept is play for free - pay to win.... not pay once to win forever...

the_bob
01-07-2015, 07:09 AM
Why is anyone arguing with Ryosaeba, anyway? He's clearly Gree's newest forum shill.

truthteller
01-07-2015, 07:14 AM
Why is anyone arguing with Ryosaeba, anyway? He's clearly Gree's newest forum shill.

You are wrong my friend, he is just one "happy" "free" customer :rolleyes:

SenorSwamp
01-07-2015, 07:22 AM
So just to understand it.... You spend money for a game to avoid playing it?? This is a strange concept for me... (sorry.. this had to be :D )

Didn't you see the south park episode on "freemium" gaming? That is the entire business model! Ha!




Put it this way, if you were Gree, would you keep an event going that doesn't make ANY money? Yes, you spend before and build up your character. So does that mean Gree should forgo future earning?


I do not understand Ryo, why this has to be an "either/or" conversation? Why cannot it not be both, like happens with so many other games across countless mobile and stationary platforms? It is completely reasonable for these individuals to have cause with how Gree has made such a material change with the game, since the outcome served to erode years of investment (again time AND money). Their cause, as his been stated countless times, is not that Gree should be a charitable operation; rather, if they see a gap in their business model (let's say that is what the EB event was), they should thoughtfully develop an answer that does more than simply move the exact same problem from one half of the population (the relatively weak) to the other half (the relatively strong).

In fact, many of these people that are now complaining about this have been asking for parity for a long time--just not at the expense of their own investments.

If Gree wants to succeed, it has to be able to do both. The "whales," as they are affectionately known, will abandon ship and head to a game (as a new player, by the way!) where they can both spend money and get stronger--yet not at the expense of the established players. Novel thought, eh Gree?



That is really bad business for them. You're suppose to spend money


I agree with your result, but disagree with premise you used to arrive there. It is bad business for them, but not because they are no longer letting the "whales" get away free. It is bad business for them because it is a myopic, rash decision that simply moves the problem and does not solve it. Yes, it will increase spending in the short term; however, the financial engine that has driven this machine will now breakdown because they will seek a platform that sustains their investment.

Additionally, if you are a new player and you see that you can invest a ton of money here just to lose it later, are you more likely to a) continue to throw time and effort into this game? or b) go to a game where that does not happen--one in which you can both pay (either in time or dollars) to grow and then reap your rewards for a long time? In my estimation, most rational people will choose option B.

Toddiekska
01-07-2015, 08:44 AM
Perhaps someone else could take some time and create an analogy representing this situation? Then, more folks would understand why these unadvertised changes make such an immense hit on people with larger wallets. For the record, I spend very little on this game and it's in support of my guild. If I had spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on this game and all of a sudden the rules changed drastically, I would be put-out. Sure the rules have changed for everyone, but where is the reward for stepping forward? It seems more and more like a money-hungry business analyzing numbers and not the community playing the game.

I guess we would also need to define "drastic" too. I've been around since day one of KA, I've seen numerous hoops we've had to jump through with little support or clarification.

Skyraiders
01-07-2015, 09:22 AM
hmmm...I will do my best....

its like buying a Ferrari with an engine of a pinto.....I spent tons of money on the car but realize when I take it out for a drive it wont go past 60MPH.....wtf.....this is not what I paid for

its like buying a bag of gems and realizing you only have coal

its like paying to win the lotto...then realizing you got all the numbers right....only for them to say the machine messed up...we gonna have a do over

SenorSwamp
01-07-2015, 01:29 PM
Perhaps someone else could take some time and create an analogy representing this situation?

So there you are, working hard. You spend 30 years of your life building a pharmacy from scratch. You went to school. Paid your dues. And, to save money, you actually helped on the construction of your pharmacy building-- Alpaca Pharmaceuticals. You created a great business model (your gree account) and were able to live a relatively comfortable life (your epic bosses).

Then, your city council (gree) decided that the municipality needed to expand its commercial footprint. They realized that as the town grew, it would need additional pharmacies (new accounts). This could be done in all kinds of ways-- tax breaks could be given to new business owners (cheap or free bundles for new players to buy), properties (free catch-up buildings such as silos, rogue gardens, etc.) could be given for free from the city to aspiring pharmacists, or the city could target specific types of speciality pharmacies (events that would not be attractive to old players, but would help new).

Alas, all of those ideas were too hard. Instead, the city simply chose to exercise imminent financial domain (flipping the EB model). Rather than allowing you to enjoy the fruits of your labor and have a productive life, the city, instead, chose to tax you at a rate 8 times higher, while making the taxes for the new person be 20 times lower. This would make their market entry easier and you would struggle (which, seemed unnecessary in the first place, given that there is market share enough for both of you, but we digress...)

You complained! You were outraged! "How could they do thus to me?", you asked! The city, in it's infinite wisdom, heard this and reduced your taxes by .06%, and told you it was committed to you as a long time resident, city leader, and general fan of your hometown --which you helped build.

The new pharmacist was ecstatic about their newly found opportunity and did not understand why you were mad--"NOW I CAN GET THE SAME THING AS YOU--HOORAY! Finally, we are equal. Why don't you get over it! Of course the city had to act to grow the pharmaceutical base!"

Interestingly, you actually agree with most everything they said. The city did need new pharmacists. Incentives did need to be created to attract them. Out of all of the millions of options available to them, however, you simply wonder "why did this have to come at the expense of me... as it now seems that I am mad at the new pharmacist for being able to grow???" Unfortunately, nothing could be farther from the truth. You want the new blood--it takes some of the pressure off of you and contributes to your town growing.

You simply wish your town had thought through this a bit more... as now you may choose to leave the community entirely and go set up shop somewhere else---the only thing at this point that is keeping you here are your loyal customers, fellow businessmen, and friends (fellow guildmates). You stay despite the city council.

Ratma2001
01-07-2015, 02:12 PM
2 cents worth...just incase..i used to spend money ..lots and i mean lots ....in the vicinity of $700-1000 per month....when the game was AWESOME.....im level 200 , have been for some time.....i took 4 months off due to various reasons..like real life...work, i came back to over inflated stats, now given that i could hold my own with most as i was towards the top in stats, i couls achieve most events with some assistance from gems, like the Boss i could do most , now the game changes and i am struggling to do Boss 28 ? why due to inflations stats that affected my acct and all the monies i spent were worth didley squat ! Now with the new inflation on the Boss, i am maxed at Boss 20 ...go figure..would i spend more money like before only to see it all change again...NO...never on this game, it changes too quickly and not advised of changes....company policy not to advertise these changes. So i just go as far as i can ..not far now though, so yes i work, yes i play, yes i used to spend, but not worth my additional time or effort, and you can go from Hero to Zero in no time, just take a break even for 2 months and come back and tell me you can still do Boss 50 after being able to do Boss 100 !! ??

Jomama1
01-07-2015, 05:00 PM
Well Said SenorSwamp

There is no reason that the biggest spenders needed to see a difficulty increase of 10X in order to make it easier for new folks. This is simply fixed, just add a component of army strength to the attack calculation, say 500 per billion. Everyone wins. There is no need to disenfranchise your biggest spenders.

Ryosaeba
01-07-2015, 10:37 PM
Originally, the way EB was setup, the difficulty was based on player level. This made mini's able to finish very easily without gems and pretty much impossible for L180+ (or whatever the cut off was) without massive spendings even with the stat inflation. Until now, I don't think Gree had found the right balance for EB. The time high level players all can kill L100 with 1, 2 free hits was most likely not foreseen. Maybe it was a side effect of trying to help out the weaker players so they may reach 70 or 80 kills and spend gems to get to 100.

My point is, the easy kills for high level players did not last more then 2 or 3 cycles and most likely was just an experiment for Gree. If they had it like that for say, 20 cycles then all of a sudden increase difficulty 10 fold, then yeah, I'd be pissed too.

This goes back to SenorSwamp's analogy. It would apply if EB was this like that since beginning. But it wasn't. I don't know how long you played but before a lot of these changes, RB for L180+ was very very difficult, even if you had god like stats. Each hit would take away pixels from the energy bar. It required massive amounts of spending to finish.

The analogy would only work if you were ALWAYS able to finish EB without spending. Or if it was a gradual increase in your max kills. (i.e. you were able to kill 48 in the beginning, then 52, then 56, then 60, then 64 and so on and so forth all the way to 100). But this isn't the case is it. It was impossible, then a little easier, then too easy, then we have now, mildly difficult.

You see where I'm going here? It wasn't gradually getting easier for you because your stats increased. It was all of a sudden too easy. Call it a failed experiment for Gree. And I do believe at this point, they are still experimenting. We may see it completely changed next cycle and make it impossible for me to get 100 kills but easier for you.

Ratma2001
01-08-2015, 02:36 AM
Originally, the way EB was setup, the difficulty was based on player level. This made mini's able to finish very easily without gems and pretty much impossible for L180+ (or whatever the cut off was) without massive spendings even with the stat inflation. Until now, I don't think Gree had found the right balance for EB. The time high level players all can kill L100 with 1, 2 free hits was most likely not foreseen. Maybe it was a side effect of trying to help out the weaker players so they may reach 70 or 80 kills and spend gems to get to 100.

This goes back to SenorSwamp's analogy. It would apply if EB was this like that since beginning. But it wasn't. I don't know how long you played but before a lot of these changes, RB for L180+ was very very difficult, even if you had god like stats. Each hit would take away pixels from the energy bar. It required massive amounts of spending to finish.

The analogy would only work if you were ALWAYS able to finish EB without spending. Or if it was a gradual increase in your max kills. (i.e. you were able to kill 48 in the beginning, then 52, then 56, then 60, then 64 and so on and so forth all the way to 100). But this isn't the case is it. It was impossible, then a little easier, then too easy, then we have now, mildly difficult.

You see where I'm going here? It wasn't gradually getting easier for you because your stats increased. It was all of a sudden too easy. Call it a failed experiment for Gree. And I do believe at this point, they are still experimenting. We may see it completely changed next cycle and make it impossible for me to get 100 kills but easier for you.

Sort of right , but not quite, it was based on your level over level 100 Boss was a lot harder over 150 harder again..not stats... the more you won at lower levels the more stats you gained but Boss didn't change strength till you hit those Levels, than all of a sudden it was different, kinda like a double double then triple triple..if you understand?
stats didn't make any impact except how hard you hit , it was your level that determined the Boss strength, that's why Mini's were introduced you could do Boss 100 easy where as if you were level 150+ same or close to stats, 3 times harder, that's why leveling was such a backwards step...that has all changed now , its just as hard at level 150+ to level 80 .... see the difference ?that in a nut shell is why minis were born and made such an impact , they got BIG stats quick and big acct got the dregs. so opposite to game play, the smaller level you were the easier it was to get the Big stat units, and vise versa, Big levels got diddley squat unless you spent copious amounts of gems.

SenorSwamp
01-08-2015, 05:28 AM
Sort of right , but not quite, it was based on your level over level 100 Boss was a lot harder over 150 harder again..not stats... the more you won at lower levels the more stats you gained but Boss didn't change strength till you hit those Levels, than all of a sudden it was different, kinda like a double double then triple triple..if you understand?
stats didn't make any impact except how hard you hit , it was your level that determined the Boss strength, that's why Mini's were introduced you could do Boss 100 easy where as if you were level 150+ same or close to stats, 3 times harder, that's why leveling was such a backwards step...that has all changed now , its just as hard at level 150+ to level 80 .... see the difference ?that in a nut shell is why minis were born and made such an impact , they got BIG stats quick and big acct got the dregs. so opposite to game play, the smaller level you were the easier it was to get the Big stat units, and vise versa, Big levels got diddley squat unless you spent copious amounts of gems.

Ding!

I finished EB under level 50, around 75, and over 100. The tax brackets, using the analogy, were graduated and consistent since the beginning. Later in life, again using the analogy, you would expect for long time business owners to experience prosperity (absent external market forces such as the city council/gree). Although the certainly not perfect, I think the analogy still does a good enough job telling the story.

Ryo-- I must ask you: why do you keep splitting hairs? The entire purpose of the narrative was to demonstrate that gree had other options that would have been far better. Why are you insisting on anchoring on a point that is effectively white noise?

Everyone has said EB could be harder for old timers. Everyone has also said new people need access. We have just said the chosen method of achieving those goals was atrocious. And the analogy was designed to illustrate there were rising tides that could have lifted all boats, rather than sinking one to raise another.

Jomama1
01-10-2015, 11:17 AM
Agree

Ryo - do you really think this was the best solution? It seems strange anyone could say that...