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View Full Version : Insane amount of energy needed for the ILTQ



Jnsolberg
06-08-2015, 04:22 PM
One of my guild mates went through @ 25 potions to finish Normal. Gree, are you kidding? Seems like this happened recently, and you lowered the mobs required

15/15 needs 42 kills x 150energy = 6300 energy.

20/20 Heroic is kill 70 mobs x 205 energy each = 14.350 energy

Guess I'll enjoy a few days off until the war.

Krissy
06-08-2015, 04:38 PM
Beyond insane. Did you mix up a guild quest with an Indy quest again? At +3 energy a min this is impossible. 20 monsters at 25 energy each for 5/5 beginners. Really. It gets worse for normal.

22830 energy to finish normal?

34555 energy to finish heroic?

Jomama1
06-08-2015, 05:49 PM
Please fix this - this is insane

Krissy
06-08-2015, 06:05 PM
Bolt please confirm your looking into this or if that's the way it is!!!!!!!

Frothypython
06-08-2015, 07:31 PM
This is stunning. I am speechless. Will this be modified? Please let us know.

Lord Vyper
06-08-2015, 11:11 PM
Sorry Gree.... I'm willing to use energy refills to finish a LTQ, but not if I have to do the biggest part with refills. A normal player with 3 energy/minute is not able to finish normal part without using refills (even when he doesn't sleep he has only 4320 energy/day) - this is far to much and nearly all members of my guild are going to skip this LTQ.

Please take a look into this - and please give us some feedback here soon

Laura TCK
06-09-2015, 12:24 AM
My guild not bothering to do it either when will Gree ever get things right 1st go

Ryosaeba
06-09-2015, 03:59 AM
Dang it, I wish I would of read this before starting.. Though I have not spent any potions and at 11/15 normal, I'm stopping until it is fixed.

candii
06-09-2015, 06:39 AM
I am also not doing the quest until GREE speaks up. where is the communication that they claim is at the top of their priority list?

Vile Lynn
06-09-2015, 07:56 AM
RB: pointless; LTQ: pointless; Box event: pointless...

lol! Am I even playing KA anymore?

Laura TCK
06-09-2015, 08:14 AM
Sadly Lynn I say that to myself nearly everyday but I'm still here damn I have no will power

Vile Lynn
06-09-2015, 08:29 AM
Sadly Lynn I say that to myself nearly everyday but I'm still here damn I have no will power

awww, it's ok :) I love the app, too.

I'll be here 'til the end with the rest of us... which I don't think it too far away.

Bolt
06-09-2015, 09:35 AM
Looking into this now everyone, I will update you as soon as I know more.

the_bob
06-09-2015, 09:37 AM
I'll be here 'til the end with the rest of us... which I don't think it too far away.

Google techinasia gree and you'll see just how close the end really is.

Vile Lynn
06-09-2015, 10:07 AM
Looking into this now everyone, I will update you as soon as I know more.

Thank you, Bolt! (and thank you!) :)

Jnsolberg
06-09-2015, 10:07 AM
Looking into this now everyone, I will update you as soon as I know more.

Thank you Bolt!

We do appreciate you helping us!

Fromm
06-09-2015, 01:39 PM
This is an insanely high amount of energy needed. I've used over 20 refills to get to the last level of normal. The XP is high as well. Thank you Bolt for having this looked into.

Bolt
06-09-2015, 02:31 PM
I've heard back from design and the intention was to make the event more challenging; if you believe this was 'overtuned' any constructive explanation of your thought process is highly welcome.

The red Baron
06-09-2015, 02:50 PM
Its not a challange its stupid.
May be the design does not know that a refill is only 1000 energy and not a full bar.

Frothypython
06-09-2015, 02:55 PM
It made it so challenging I realized I needed to stop playing the quest. Finishing normal is not in my monthly budget.

Vclone
06-09-2015, 03:06 PM
The game has to get more challenging as we go, or it will get boring. Tuning should be done gradually, not boosted beyond the ability to do it for free like this one. I am not using all of my energy refills for this event. At least I know that i definitely should stop doing it now.

Krissy
06-09-2015, 03:07 PM
The problem is it doesn't matter how much you have improved your character, stats, equipment. The only thing that matters is the +1 energy boosts which occurred in the very first guild quest and first raid boss that were accessible only to players that played two years ago. The other + 1 boosts only went to top 5 guilds. It's brutally unfair to new players. +1 energy boost is 33% improvement that dwarfs any accessible guild +5% energy boosts that are extremely costly. The quest is not more challenging it's stupid. At least 60k energy is needed for this event. The most anyone with 3 energy a min can get over 4 days is 17k without sleep. You can't even finish normal with that energy. Normally ka quests are designed that with more time and work most things are achievable. This is not even close. It's 352% more.

Lord Vyper
06-09-2015, 03:10 PM
Hi Bolt,

It's simple math....
beginners mode needs about 2000 Energy
Normal mode needs 22830 Energy
heroic Mode needs 34555 Energy

It's a total of 59385 Energy

A normal player has 3 Energy/minute, 4320 Energy a day (without sleep) - the event is 4 days, that gives him 17280 energy.

So you need 8 refills to finish beginner + normal
And an additional 35 refills for heroic

That's what we think is not motivating.... At least normal mode should be doable without refills (and normally a part of heroic. It's ok that you think we should use gems/refills to finish an event - but this means we have to do 71% of the event with gems/refills.

Instead of motivating many player to spend a bit you will annoy most player - and they will spend nothing...

Frostpocket
06-09-2015, 03:14 PM
Quite simply Bolt, the quest relies far too much on gem usage and massive levelling. I don't see how much more eloquent one needs to be. It isn't challenging, it's just too expensive.

Baltarr
06-09-2015, 03:18 PM
Hi Bolt,

It's simple math....
beginners mode needs about 2000 Energy
Normal mode needs 22830 Energy
heroic Mode needs 34555 Energy

It's a total of 59385 Energy

A normal player has 3 Energy/minute, 4320 Energy a day (without sleep) - the event is 4 days, that gives him 17280 energy.

So you need 8 refills to finish beginner + normal
And an additional 35 refills for heroic
That's what we think is not motivating.... At least normal mode should be doable without refills (and normally a part of heroic. It's ok that you think we should use gems/refills to finish an event - but this means we have to do 71% of the event with gems/refills.

Instead of motivating many player to spend a bit you will annoy most player - and they will spend nothing...


Your numbers are off for heroic...
Heroic
level 1: 4 x 15 60
level 2 4 x 25 100
levle 3 4 x 35 140
level 4 4 x 45 180
levle 5 4 x 55 220
level 6 5 x 65 260
level 7 x 75
level 8 x 85
level 9 x 95
level 10 x 105
level 11 x 115
level 12 x 125
level 13 x 135
level 14 x 145
level 15 x 155
level 16 x 165
level 17 x 175
level 18 45 x 185 8325
level 19 56 x 195 10920
level 20 70 x 205 14350
total energy needed: 34555

7 - 17 are unknown. No one that completed was keeping track so add those to the known data and you get my guess about 75k

Lord Vyper
06-09-2015, 03:23 PM
Another simple idea.... I think you have already figured out that more and more people are leaving KA. You don't like that, we don't like that....
What about changing your concept of trying to get more and more money from less and lesser peeps? Try to get people back to the game and get more money from more people.
To be serious.... Most people spend a fixed amount of money for the game. We take it for buildings, equipment, potions, refills.... There is no way to make us spend much more money. If we don't have to spend it for potions we use it for box events.... Or equipment. If you make us spend it again for refills or potions we won't buy equipment and buildings anymore (ok, there are a few that buy everything you throw at them... But you know (and I know it too) that you get most of your money from people spending always about the same amount, cycle for cycle. If you are seriously interested in saving KA you should start to work on how to get more peeps to the game and spending money....

Frothypython
06-09-2015, 03:29 PM
I'm more likely to spend money on a quest if I reach a point where I can do it if I gem a bit. The golden ring has to be visible for me to reach for it.

Krissy
06-09-2015, 03:30 PM
I stand corrected. Sorry baltarr. I only saw the total. Thanks for the further knowledge.

Lord Vyper
06-09-2015, 03:31 PM
Thx Baltarr....

So we need about 52155 Energy for heroic

Changes the number of refills needed to 53 (61 in total)

And no.... No one in my guild is going to do that (BTW we haven't talked about the XP you get if you would). I was doing the LTQ with my accounts but will stop now - no sense in continuing the work, will open a box for free from time to time and wait for a better decision from Gree or for the battle....

I would have to do 78% with gems/refills.... No way. Like said before: finishing with gems/refills is ok - but not doing nearly 80% of it this way

Jomama1
06-09-2015, 04:02 PM
The fact that your development team needs this math explained to then just shows how out of touch they are.

Its really quite sad.

Needing gems to do 80% of the ILTQ is not challenging its insulting.

It also adds huge amounts of XP to players. So why do it?

Sniklefritz
06-09-2015, 05:05 PM
It's not a challenge if you are the 1% who buys bonus gems every month. It's also practically impossible to do as a light gemmer. I for one use my gems wisely and this is just ridiculous. If you want more revenue, try to not push people into quitting by making it this time and gem consuming.

candii
06-09-2015, 05:51 PM
I've heard back from design and the intention was to make the event more challenging; if you believe this was 'overtuned' any constructive explanation of your thought process is highly welcome.
thanks for the timely feedback. in my opinion it is not too challenging, it simply requires too much energy, and I will not attempt to complete it.

K_BLESS_1
06-09-2015, 06:38 PM
I've heard back from design and the intention was to make the event more challenging; if you believe this was 'overtuned' any constructive explanation of your thought process is highly welcome.

considering many people paid full price for the gear packs and most of the mobs i faced are half the strength of my equipment, i'd say that's one reason that the ILTQ is "overtuned" what's the point of doing 4000 damage if the strongest mob you killed is only barely 1000 health...

Mattman@WLD
06-09-2015, 07:34 PM
Hello Gree, figured I would take a few moments to write you. It's been awhile since I had to break out the math lesson... but it is very obvious you must have hit your head and lost your marbles all in the same step...

So lets begin our math lesson for the day. This LTQ takes almost 86,000 energy to complete all 3 levels. Ok, you want to give us a challenge... That makes sense. but now let see just how much of a challenge you presented us with... So I have a fairly average energy regen rate of +5 energy every minute. This is a 4 day event so that means we have 5,760 minute in this event. Those minutes equate to 28,800 energy available to complete this quest. I am also level 210 so I have 2200 energy I started this event with so together I have 31,000 total energy across the 4 day event. Gulp.. that is less than half of the needed 86,000 energy you have set for this event.

Now the fun part... wheeeeee So how many refills do I need to complete this event? double-gulp 55!!!! 86,000 - 31,000 = 55,000. Each refill is 1,000 energy so that is 55 refills... or in terms of gems that is 1,100 gems. Nicely done Gree! There is a bit more challenging and then there is Gree-sanity kind of challenging.

This was fun! Thanks for letting me play along. Now off to help someone find there lost marbles.

Cheers from Mattman!!!!!

SenorSwamp
06-09-2015, 08:06 PM
M
Hello Gree, figured I would take a few moments to write you. It's been awhile since I had to break out the math lesson... but it is very obvious you must have hit your head and lost your marbles all in the same step...

So lets begin our math lesson for the day. This LTQ takes almost 86,000 energy to complete all 3 levels. Ok, you want to give us a challenge... That makes sense. but now let see just how much of a challenge you presented us with... So I have a fairly average energy regen rate of +5 energy every minute. This is a 4 day event so that means we have 5,760 minute in this event. Those minutes equate to 28,800 energy available to complete this quest. I am also level 210 so I have 2200 energy I started this event with so together I have 31,000 total energy across the 4 day event. Gulp.. that is less than half of the needed 86,000 energy you have set for this event.

Now the fun part... wheeeeee So how many refills do I need to complete this event? double-gulp 55!!!! 86,000 - 31,000 = 55,000. Each refill is 1,000 energy so that is 55 refills... or in terms of gems that is 1,100 gems. Nicely done Gree! There is a bit more challenging and then there is Gree-sanity kind of challenging.

This was fun! Thanks for letting me play along. Now off to help someone find there lost marbles.

Cheers from Mattman!!!!!
Matt-- I believe that means you cannot sleep (at least more than 440 minutes consecutively), right? Otherwise, it's more refills for your laziness!

Ryosaeba
06-09-2015, 11:00 PM
I'm a light gem spender and I would do this if it required 45,000-50,000 energy.

Laura TCK
06-09-2015, 11:25 PM
No complaints from me re the energy, simple stupidly high energy needed plus stupid 100 box event = Family time :)
Perfect thank you Gree

Lord Vyper
06-10-2015, 05:23 AM
It needs even a bit more energy:
Here is the heroic part of this so "nice" ;) ILTQ
level 1: 4 x 15 60
level 2 4 x 25 100
levle 3 4 x 35 140
level 4 4 x 45 180
levle 5 4 x 55 220
level 6 5 x 65 325
level 7 6 x 75 450
level 8 7 x 85 595
level 9 8 x 95 760
level 10 9 x 105 945
level 11 11 x 115 1265
level 12 13 x 125 1625
level 13 15 x 135 2025
level 14 20 x 145 2900
level 15 24 x 155 3720
level 16 29 x 165 4785
level 17 36 x 175 6300
level 18 45 x 185 8325
level 19 56 x 195 10920
level 20 70 x 205 14350
total energy needed: 59990

Saint-BEL
06-10-2015, 07:15 AM
I've heard back from design and the intention was to make the event more challenging; if you believe this was 'overtuned' any constructive explanation of your thought process is highly welcome.

Guess simple math to calculate minimal energy gain over 4 days and comparing that with what you minimally require for energy of the event is too difficult or what?

Get your head out of your ass Bolt and pass this message to your bosses.
Either afford decent programmers that know the game they are working on or try actually listening to those customers that are constantly giving feedback.
For crying out loud, is it so hard to make sensible decisions to this game or do you ask kindergarten to decide what to do?

Jnsolberg
06-10-2015, 07:25 AM
Guess simple math to calculate minimal energy gain over 4 days and comparing that with what you minimally require for energy of the event is too difficult or what?

Get your head out of your ass Bolt and pass this message to your bosses.
Either afford decent programmers that know the game they are working on or try actually listening to those customers that are constantly giving feedback.
For crying out loud, is it so hard to make sensible decisions to this game or do you ask kindergarten to decide what to do?

While I share your concerns about this ILTQ, I don't think we need to get mad at Bolt. He's the only one of the mods that try's to help us, and I don't think he's a decision maker at Gree.
It's those peeps at GREE that decide that top 50 should be top 20, and that decide that even though a daily bonus is advertised as a DAILY prize, it shouldn't stack, and decide to design an ILTQ that you need maybe 100 refills to complete, those are the peeps who should get their heads out of their a....

Lord Vyper
06-10-2015, 07:59 AM
While I share your concerns about this ILTQ, I don't think we need to get mad at Bolt. He's the only one of the mods that try's to help us, and I don't think he's a decision maker at Gree.
It's those peeps at GREE that decide that top 50 should be top 20, and that decide that even though a daily bonus is advertised as a DAILY prize, it shouldn't stack, and decide to design an ILTQ that you need maybe 100 refills to complete, those are the peeps who should get their heads out of their a....

Agree - and still hope for another answer from Bolt. Time is running and we did what he asked us for. I think it should be more than enough to show that you have to do about 80% of the LTQ with gems/refills to complete it (not to talk about the XP which make it insane for smaller lvl)

The red Baron
06-10-2015, 01:11 PM
The main problem is, in the pat there was one quest for the top 50 player only (leaderboard box event) each session.
Now we have 2 quests for the top 20 players only (still leaderboard) taking away a nice guild event and the better box event.
In addition a challange for may be the top 300 players, this is too much.
I prefer this new challange as i can finish but there should be only one per session to give the best players the chance to become better as the rest, not 3.
And by the way for this challange the heroic bonus should be permanent.
And this challange has a bonus unit for finishing normal what a lot of players can do. +3% quest gold payout, better than nothing.
Leaderboard there is no bonus unit for the top 500.

Bolt
06-10-2015, 01:43 PM
Thank you for going into detail everyone. This event won't be rebalanced but I have forwarded your feedback to the developer to review for future events. Thank you for your understanding.

Frothypython
06-10-2015, 02:00 PM
Thank you Bolt

the_bob
06-10-2015, 04:51 PM
Another simple idea.... I think you have already figured out that more and more people are leaving KA. You don't like that, we don't like that....
What about changing your concept of trying to get more and more money from less and lesser peeps? Try to get people back to the game and get more money from more people.
To be serious.... Most people spend a fixed amount of money for the game. We take it for buildings, equipment, potions, refills.... There is no way to make us spend much more money. If we don't have to spend it for potions we use it for box events.... Or equipment. If you make us spend it again for refills or potions we won't buy equipment and buildings anymore (ok, there are a few that buy everything you throw at them... But you know (and I know it too) that you get most of your money from people spending always about the same amount, cycle for cycle. If you are seriously interested in saving KA you should start to work on how to get more peeps to the game and spending money....

I said this exact same thing a year ago, maybe more. It would be the smart, logical thing to do. As we know, smart and logical are not agree traits. I would not expect them to understand.

Thing is, Gree has no desire for the game to have any longevity. It's not part of their business model. They'll milk it until it's no longer profitable and then they'll move on and buy up another IP and leech it dry, too. That's Gree's business model. They don't create, they destroy.

Saint-BEL
06-11-2015, 02:17 AM
Thank you for going into detail everyone. This event won't be rebalanced but I have forwarded your feedback to the developer to review for future events. Thank you for your understanding.

No i'm sorry I don't understand.

Djeezes, they turned you in one of the random BS reiterating posts quite quickly. I do wonder how you transfer those messages towards the developers. What is he a scary man that you don't dare to argue with him?
Community manager that cares little about community imo.

Excuse me for not being as acceptant as my fellow players anymore. You screw to much up too often.

Crazy Canuck
06-11-2015, 08:57 AM
i have a few suggestion for future energy based events

1) put the mobs on higher end maps. Atleast this way when I need to kill so many it can go towards mastering lvls on them. After playing so long and with so many ltq on lower maps a lot of palayers should have the first 6-10 maps lvl5 mastered already.

2) Make the prizes for finishing each Lvl better! It's very sad the amount of energy and exp needed to finish each Lvl when reward is way less then what I can get from box event units. Why would anyone spend 40-100 gems finishing one of these higher lvls for a unit with 1-2 mil stats when you can get a unit with 6-7 mil stats for 20 gems in box event running at the same time?

3) lower the experience for killing each mob. The amount of exp gained on this is crazy

this will probably fall on def ears but worth a shot.

Acadian
06-11-2015, 07:09 PM
agreed, at the very least the higher end maps would at least work us toward those extra skill points. I actually like the ltq's better than trials now, all the map jumping is just wear and tear on our devices for trials, and they haven't upped the rewards with them as they have the other quests though they are actually harder since most have raised their max attack. This go around really felt like the guild activities were forgotten, not even the 7 day box event, instead we got a single one with the 100 opened prizes to complete. Guild ltq's are a lot more fun than 10 trials to finish quest and a super hard ltq for not really great prizes.

Jomama1
06-12-2015, 03:14 AM
and don't forget two long tedious PVPs and the dullest HRB ever.

ZicZac
06-12-2015, 07:17 AM
Perhaps its all down to the fact that Gree have to cut costs and increase revenue at the same time ?

.... 2 x Indi Raid quests making most ppl to be without sleep for 3 days in order to complete
.... 2 x Leader Board lockbox ....
.... 1 x EB doable by new items
.... 1 x RB event with insane boost
.... 1 x LTB which actually was doable
.... 1 x ILTQ was by brainfart made an undoable challange, unless you got your wallet out

Perhaps Gree ppl are on vacation and was in a rush to get off from work? - At least it seems that this entire event has been more or less left-hand-work that just had to be done.... - To fill the gaps, the events was duplicated to make it last 2 week?

All is speculations, but for sure havent been the most exciting event or the event with the most variations :(

Erageous
06-12-2015, 09:26 AM
Can I also recommend that if we are paying gems for an energy refill that we actually get a FULL bar of energy? This 1000 point cap is a bit ridiculous.

[rudy]
06-12-2015, 09:43 AM
Can I also recommend that if we are paying gems for an energy refill that we actually get a FULL bar of energy? This 1000 point cap is a bit ridiculous.

In other games I'm playing, a refill is a refill. Not partial refill like this crap here.

Frothypython
06-13-2015, 06:53 AM
Fully behind you on the refill request