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nighthunter
12-30-2011, 05:00 PM
Well since I completely disagree to "Modern War Tortoise guide for newbies. Slow and steady..... ",
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?15470-Modern-War-Tortoise-guide-for-newbies.-Slow-and-steady.....
I feel obligated to write this guide.
Here comes the disclaimer: I've been playing MW since 12/18/11, I haven't touched Crime City and I am not responsible for the correctness of anything in this post.
Let’s break the data down here, how much does a stamina, an energy, an attack/defense point worth anyway?
While it is hard to determine the values for stamina and A/D points, thanks to the loot farming missions, it is actually quite easy to quantify the value of EPs.
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?15056-Loot-Farming

In map “Insurgent Camp”, the “Insurgent Leader” is guaranteed to drop a desert leader = scout = 1000$ plus 50-465$ in cash with no requirement for 15 EP. So, (1000+250)/15=83 is roughly how much 1EP worth, at least for the first 30-40 levels or so. Put it in Income per Hour? 15000$/Hr worth of cash!
Say you have a 1000 EP bar, then when it’s fully charged in 5Hr 30 minutes, you can collect 83*1000=83000$ worth of price – Better than any of the money buildings you can have in early game!
Because of the highly uncertain income from attacking/raiding, and the even higher possibility of losing units, it is very hard to set a value for stamina. IMO 5 SP could be tight but 10 SP (fully charged in 30 mins) should be enough in most cases not just because I like even number.
Ok now get to the point, why not camping?
Besides no fun at all? Because it’s not efficient. 1. It takes the same amount of time to build the money and unit buildings, camping or not. 2. Since you are not leveling if you camp, you lose a HUGE chunk of income from leveling EPs and doing missions (raiding and attacking are usually not consider profitable). and 3. There’s no way to build a strong army or alliance network if you camp.
How to pick a fight: LOOK FIRST! Don’t just attack anyone in your list, use the raid button and look at your rival’s profile. You will know who you can win and who you shouldn’t touch. Don’t use the revenge button when you got attacked/raided. It will mark your name on your opponent’s wall and he/she can come back and bite you anytime he/she desires to do so.
How to build an army: Build/upgrade you money building, expand your base before spending the last dime you have on troops. Start with meat shields, a lot of them; don’t bother to spend too much on navy/air force before you have enough meat. Defense comes first if you got attacked too often (never happened to me somehow). Don’t spend valor on valor units (because they will die and die quick) until you found many of your rivals are stronger than you - Now Valor units are keys to your success.
How to level: Do the missions, PVE and PVP, but hold off on the building sequence ones. Put couple skills points on SP and boost it to 6 or 7, then put every single skill point on energy. Since you will get a fully recharged EP and SP bar each time you level, plan ahead and empty your EPs first because they take much longer to charge, and they are much more valuable. I stopped putting points on EP when I hit 1000 energy because I felt 5:30 recharge time is reasonable and I like even numbers. I put points on attack thereafter. Why? Because defense is much easier to build than offense, among all the MW players I visited, allies or rivals, very few, if not none at all, have a higher offense than defense.
How should I build my base: Expanse the base and the vault as soon as you have money and the last expansion completes. Build every money building, wait till you have a strong eco system before building advanced unit buildings, keep leveling your money buildings and think twice before you level up your unit buildings.

What else? Couldn’t think of any ATM.

Dover
12-30-2011, 05:37 PM
I like it! And I will try it right now,turtles too long. Want to play!

ShawnBB
01-21-2012, 06:00 PM
That's right baby, thank you so much for this post.
I know there must be some smart people get my idea.
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?17456-For-all-you-low-level-stupid-turtling-farmers!&p=95853#post95853

digitalwalker
01-22-2012, 01:45 AM
Thanks for sharing, however,I think, early level (below 19) raiding and attacking are very vey benifitial, my low level account spend 5 days reached level 19, and I farmed almost 25ish million cash very easily, only by raiding and attacking. No missions at all. There are so many campers holding huge a lot of cash in earlier stage.

I bought a few gold units, so may not suit for the suitiation you addressed in. But I believe, if arm you troops with good stats units in the beginning, you can still farm 2-5 millions per day.

emcee
01-22-2012, 07:23 AM
Well since I completely disagree to "Modern War Tortoise guide for newbies. Slow and steady..... ",
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?15470-Modern-War-Tortoise-guide-for-newbies.-Slow-and-steady.....
I feel obligated to write this guide.
Here comes the disclaimer: I've been playing MW since 12/18/11, I haven't touched Crime City and I am not responsible for the correctness of anything in this post.
Let’s break the data down here, how much does a stamina, an energy, an attack/defense point worth anyway?
While it is hard to determine the values for stamina and A/D points, thanks to the loot farming missions, it is actually quite easy to quantify the value of EPs.
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?15056-Loot-Farming

What else? Couldn’t think of any ATM.

As the author of Modern War Tortoise Guide for Newbies. Slow and Steady....
I feel obligated to write this response :)

Here comes the disclaimer. I've been playing MW on or about Dec 4, 2011. I have played Crime City since Nov 24 and have come to the conclusion that the game mechanics for both games are very similar if not the same.
I on the other hand will take responsibility for the correctness of anything in this post.
Other than following the narrative of this game pumping almost all of your skill points into energy (which would be for a vast majority of players) is not prudent. A better tactic is almost all in attack and upgrade stamina to a point based on how often you will play MW. A build with heavy emphasis on attack and hence a greater figure derived from the attack multiplier will be a very difficult force to stop. Coupled with a strong economy will make for someone that imo should rival gold buying players. You will not need to check the rivals list and attack at will. Casualties will not even be a concern as a strong economy and whatever spoils of war from pvp, etc will more than compensate.



In map “Insurgent Camp”, the “Insurgent Leader” is guaranteed to drop a desert leader = scout = 1000$ plus 50-465$ in cash with no requirement for 15 EP. So, (1000+250)/15=83 is roughly how much 1EP worth, at least for the first 30-40 levels or so. Put it in Income per Hour? 15000$/Hr worth of cash!
Say you have a 1000 EP bar, then when it’s fully charged in 5Hr 30 minutes, you can collect 83*1000=83000$ worth of price – Better than any of the money buildings you can have in early game!
Because of the highly uncertain income from attacking/raiding, and the even higher possibility of losing units...

Level 6 $121342/hr and climbing. By the way to date I haven't lost 1 unit.



Ok now get to the point, why not camping?
Besides no fun at all? Because it’s not efficient. 1. It takes the same amount of time to build the money and unit buildings, camping or not. 2. Since you are not leveling if you camp, you lose a HUGE chunk of income from leveling EPs and doing missions (raiding and attacking are usually not consider profitable). and

Fun is a relative term. I know its fun building a strong economy better than most if not all people at my level. I know its fun not having lost a fight, not having been raided and at present having a perfect win loss record.
Camping is not efficient argument makes no sense as this game does not have a time limit. Your argument of wasted energy only applies if this game has a shelf life of say 2 years. Even if it did I can argue that building a strong economy now, not having any casualties and not losing any money to attacks/raids is way more efficient than your alternative which will only subject you to more expensive casualties as you level up and obviously running into a proportionally larger pool of strong players at higher levels than what I encounter at level 6.



3. There’s no way to build a strong army or alliance network if you camp.

There's nothing stopping anyone who is camping at any level to have max alliance and still invite more alliance members. Also, a disciplined camping account will have no problems outfitting their army with the best possible equipment.



How to pick a fight: LOOK FIRST! Don’t just attack anyone in your list, use the raid button and look at your rival’s profile. You will know who you can win and who you shouldn’t touch. Don’t use the revenge button when you got attacked/raided. It will mark your name on your opponent’s wall and he/she can come back and bite you anytime he/she desires to do so.

I don't pick fights. Rivals pick me and I win every attack and raid attempts.
When I choose to stop camping and employ my attack emphasis build I would not need to look at the rivals lists as I will have max alliance and most likely level 8 dry docks which may allow me to buy the best possible units with superior attack scores and the best overall defense. Most of my rivals will have only upgraded their unit builds to level 2 or most likely still be at level 1 and will have limited weak options for unit purchases.



How should I build my base: Expanse the base and the vault as soon as you have money and the last expansion completes. Build every money building, wait till you have a strong eco system before building advanced unit buildings, keep leveling your money buildings and think twice before you level up your unit buildings.

This sounds familiar.....
Looks like you are pitching a tent, building a fire, roasting marshmallows and singing kumbaya.
Right camper?

nighthunter
01-22-2012, 08:42 AM
Here comes the disclaimer. I've been playing MW on or about Dec 4, 2011.
Level 6 $121342/hr and climbing. By the way to date I haven't lost 1 unit.



Thank you for proving my point.
Lv 58 110928/hr and climbing. Lost tons of unit from attacking(ed) and raiding(ed).
I don't think it's that hard to make up the 10000 difference in 14 or so days.

EnjoyLife
01-22-2012, 08:51 AM
Thank you for proving my point.
Lv 58 110928/hr and climbing. Lost tons of unit from attacking(ed) and raiding(ed).
I don't think it's that hard to make up the 10000 difference in 14 or so days.

I think you both have flaws in your strategy. But, who is to say whose strategy is best? I am semi-camping at a higher level than emcee, but am not raiding or attacking as much as nighthunter. I am currently at 179,267/hr and climbing. 876 fights won & 219 successful raids.

nighthunter
01-22-2012, 08:58 AM
I think you both have flaws in your strategy. But, who is to say whose strategy is best? I am semi-camping at a higher level than emcee, but am not raiding or attacking as much as nighthunter. I am currently at 179,267/hr and climbing. 876 fights won & 219 successful raids.
I lost focus for a while,spent money on over-priced defence buildings when I should've put them on ecomomy

EnjoyLife
01-22-2012, 09:22 AM
I have the maximum amount of defense buildings with a lot of upgrades too. I just think that both of your strategies haves merits and flaws. Do you think that your hourly income will surpass mine? If so, when do you think that would happen?

nighthunter
01-22-2012, 09:52 AM
I have the maximum amount of defense buildings with a lot of upgrades too. I just think that both of your strategies haves merits and flaws. Do you think that your hourly income will surpass mine? If so, when do you think that would happen?

dunno,it really depends on what building you upgrade.
upgrading the depots would give you a high hourly income on the paper but upgrading something like weapon factory would probably be more beneficial if not checking in constantly...I am still debating, how do you upgrade yours?

EnjoyLife
01-22-2012, 09:58 AM
dunno,it really depends on what building you upgrade.
upgrading the depots would give you a high hourly income on the paper but upgrading something like weapon factory would probably be more beneficial if not checking in constantly...I am still debating, how do you upgrade yours?

I upgrade based on what will give me higher increases in hourly and what I will have money to upgrade. On weekends I upgrade buildings that have higher timers for collection, since I can collect from short timers during the weekend. During the week, I do the opposite. I started with this strategy a week or two ago and it seems to be working, so far.

nighthunter
01-22-2012, 10:42 AM
I upgrade based on what will give me higher increases in hourly and what I will have money to upgrade. On weekends I upgrade buildings that have higher timers for collection, since I can collect from short timers during the weekend. During the week, I do the opposite. I started with this strategy a week or two ago and it seems to be working, so far.

say on average I can increase my hourly input by 3000/day (guestimate, probably on the high end), then it would take about 20 days to get to your level

EnjoyLife
01-22-2012, 10:49 AM
say on average I can increase my hourly input by 3000/day (guestimate, probably on the high end), then it would take about 20 days to get to your level

But, where will I be in 20 days?

nighthunter
01-22-2012, 10:54 AM
But, where will I be in 20 days?
when did you start?

pkaluie
01-22-2012, 11:05 AM
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EnjoyLife
01-22-2012, 11:08 AM
when did you start?

Just before Middle December

emcee
01-22-2012, 09:26 PM
Thank you for proving my point.
Lv 58 110928/hr and climbing. Lost tons of unit from attacking(ed) and raiding(ed).
I don't think it's that hard to make up the 10000 difference in 14 or so days.
I don't know why you are comparing my hourly income vs yours especially when you are 52 levels above me and making less per hour. I am comparing mine to everyone else at level 6. My strategy conclusively proves why its superior to yours based entirely on my income/economy.
You have already prefaced to be selective on who you attack and its clear to me that you are losing a fair bit to reprisals/revenge attacks. Alternatively my dead zone approach with no alliance keeps me under the radar with no loss of income and zero casualties.

emcee
01-22-2012, 09:35 PM
I think you both have flaws in your strategy. But, who is to say whose strategy is best? I am semi-camping at a higher level than emcee, but am not raiding or attacking as much as nighthunter. I am currently at 179,267/hr and climbing. 876 fights won & 219 successful raids.
Comparing incomes with other players at different levels is like comparing apples and oranges. Modern War is not a race to level 200 and first one there wins. Even with your semi-camping approach you need to be moderately active to maintain whatever win/loss stats you have. You are bound to have attrition to your units and lose income from attack/robberies. I have invested sufficiently in the beginning to now not worry about such matters. Find me one player at level 6 with my income, no casualties and perfect win/loss record and I will acquiesce.

emcee
01-22-2012, 09:41 PM
I just think that both of your strategies haves merits and flaws. Do you think that your hourly income will surpass mine? If so, when do you think that would happen?
Unless your income at level 6 is greater than mine currently then your argument has merits. If not, then my income has surpassed yours. Moreover, you may have a point if there were no brackets and you can attack/raid me from your level. Since this game has level brackets an apples to apples comparison will only be with people that appear in your rivals list; which in our situation most likely people at our level.

EnjoyLife
01-23-2012, 04:39 AM
Unless your income at level 6 is greater than mine currently then your argument has merits. If not, then my income has surpassed yours. Moreover, you may have a point if there were no brackets and you can attack/raid me from your level. Since this game has level brackets an apples to apples comparison will only be with people that appear in your rivals list; which in our situation most likely people at our level.

If I'm a higher bracket, but don't lose any money to attacks or raids and I have quite a bit more income, I would say that I am in a better position than you. Just saying. I in now way said your way was wrong. I just said that it may be better to move up to higher level money buildings. I don't think it's apples & oranges. I do not see the attrition to my units that you are talking about. I have lost maybe 15 fights to people attacking me since I started. The other half were me attacking someone else. If I remember correctly, you are undefeated with a record of 5 & 0. Let me know what your record is when you have 1,000 wins.

Once again, I would say I am one of your biggest supporters in your strategy. I started the same way. I just modified it with time. I will be over 200,000/hr by week's end.

Dover
01-23-2012, 07:10 AM
I wasted 10 minutes I will never get back finishing this thread off. LOL There is no one better way to play this game. There are 5-15 ways that we could list if we cared to that most people fit into. If I cared enough I could succeed using most ways to play. $/hr at high or low levels just means you spent your hours differently to get to the same point. One upgrades the other uses new build while upgrading. Everyone wins. I have played using leveling method, turtling and a find a fine mix of both works for me. You are both right and you are both wrong depending on the person reading your post. In the end we all love you. Let's head out for a drink and a rather large group hug.

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Agent Orange
01-23-2012, 01:12 PM
As the author of Modern War Tortoise Guide for Newbies. Slow and Steady....
I feel obligated to write this response :)

Here comes the disclaimer. I've been playing MW on or about Dec 4, 2011. I have played Crime City since Nov 24 and have come to the conclusion that the game mechanics for both games are very similar if not the same.
I on the other hand will take responsibility for the correctness of anything in this post.
Other than following the narrative of this game pumping almost all of your skill points into energy (which would be for a vast majority of players) is not prudent. A better tactic is almost all in attack and upgrade stamina to a point based on how often you will play MW. A build with heavy emphasis on attack and hence a greater figure derived from the attack multiplier will be a very difficult force to stop. Coupled with a strong economy will make for someone that imo should rival gold buying players. You will not need to check the rivals list and attack at will. Casualties will not even be a concern as a strong economy and whatever spoils of war from pvp, etc will more than compensate.


Level 6 $121342/hr and climbing. By the way to date I haven't lost 1 unit.


Fun is a relative term. I know its fun building a strong economy better than most if not all people at my level. I know its fun not having lost a fight, not having been raided and at present having a perfect win loss record.
Camping is not efficient argument makes no sense as this game does not have a time limit. Your argument of wasted energy only applies if this game has a shelf life of say 2 years. Even if it did I can argue that building a strong economy now, not having any casualties and not losing any money to attacks/raids is way more efficient than your alternative which will only subject you to more expensive casualties as you level up and obviously running into a proportionally larger pool of strong players at higher levels than what I encounter at level 6.


There's nothing stopping anyone who is camping at any level to have max alliance and still invite more alliance members. Also, a disciplined camping account will have no problems outfitting their army with the best possible equipment.


I don't pick fights. Rivals pick me and I win every attack and raid attempts.
When I choose to stop camping and employ my attack emphasis build I would not need to look at the rivals lists as I will have max alliance and most likely level 8 dry docks which may allow me to buy the best possible units with superior attack scores and the best overall defense. Most of my rivals will have only upgraded their unit builds to level 2 or most likely still be at level 1 and will have limited weak options for unit purchases.


This sounds familiar.....
Looks like you are pitching a tent, building a fire, roasting marshmallows and singing kumbaya.
Right camper?

Yes your strategy works great in the lower levels, I set up my iPod with a new player last week and am at L8. I've been attacked twice with both players loosing because it appears they didn't think to look at my defense statistics.

I've been building all out on three fronts, base area, unit buildings and money buildings. I'm at $46000 an hour income so I'm guessing your maxing out your money buildings which would fit given the time frame you've been playing.

Thing is at some point you will have to level up just to unlock the next money buildings at L12 and beyond as well as at some point installing some form of defense since someone else who's turtling might employ this strategy which is to level up my attack buildings specifically my airbase and shipyard. The Airbase so that I can build several B-52's and the shipyard maybe to build some sea scouts. Granted this strategy is based on not buying gold. Were I to do that I would go right out and buy a Yamato or two since I'm keeping my ally count to 2 grunts. That would be the most useful at the very beginning at L2-3 since you even with just 2 grunts for allies I will have access to quite a few units. So I think actually having a higher ratio of expensive to low value units will make your attack/def stronger but as you add more allies (to each levels max) and you increase in levels you can bring more and more units into battle and that will dilute your overall score not sure if that makes sense but basically I think your ratio makes a difference.

The wild card, right now we are loosing high value units in attack and raids so it's not cost effective to do this....

Granted the other part of this mystery is by keeping to 2 allies or grunts just how 'invisible' are you to attackers. My thought is not but I do notice my rivals list is populated with pretty weak opponents.

osubuckeye
01-23-2012, 02:48 PM
Would you need to define goals before you pass any judgement on someone's strategy? any kind of comparison needs goals.

If the goal is to have the highest income/hr, then neither of your strategies seem to have advantage over another.

If your goal is to have fun, then that's totally subjective (point to Dover, for pointing out that you can play how you want as long as you have fun)

If your goal is to absolutely crush your rivals without looking at their stats beforehand... look at any of Agent Orange's posts about what happens in whale territory. emcee's strategy seems to have the edge here, but only to a point. After that, the correct strategy would have been to spend your life savings on this game.

emcee, I really hope your strategy works past lv 50. I don't think anyone has entered that arena with over $250k/hr. I wonder if going in like that will offset the &$$ pounding that the gold whales are going to dish out. Do you have a goal for how much you want to make per hour before moving up?

nighthunter
01-23-2012, 06:59 PM
All I am saying is that Tortoise way is not the only (or best) way.

Anyone can either agree or disagree, doesn't really matter to me, and I am all ears to the alternative way EL talking about...

JMC
01-23-2012, 07:22 PM
Dont see a reason to turtle at level 6 and stuff like that. You guys all have a good enough income to be strong enough all the way through to lvl 60.

New range for top players is 60+.

You guys should get to the 50s then camp if you dont want to get destroyed yet.
At least youll have more money buildings to work with and be more powerful.

Also dont expect to compete with the big gold buyers. Its easy tp go against the guys whove spent under 1K. But there are plenty who have spent way more in the top levels. You either go in expecting losses or you stay out permanently.

Currently impossible to be safe from Stephen (Speed ump) as a free player. Last i checked he has over 95000 attack. Maximum defence for a free player is 92000 with an army of 2000 aircraft carriers. You can win some battles, but he'll come out on top and still be able to raid you no problem.

And it'd cost you 10.8 billion dollars. Which even on an average income of 500,000 per hour, assuming you get every dollar possible, would take you 900 days. Good Luck

EDIT: Well actually with 10% bonus from UK, you'd be at 101200 defense. But he'll soon be higher that in attack, so still no chance.

emcee
01-23-2012, 11:21 PM
If I'm a higher bracket, but don't lose any money to attacks or raids and I have quite a bit more income, I would say that I am in a better position than you. Just saying. I in now way said your way was wrong. I just said that it may be better to move up to higher level money buildings. I don't think it's apples & oranges. I do not see the attrition to my units that you are talking about. I have lost maybe 15 fights to people attacking me since I started. The other half were me attacking someone else. If I remember correctly, you are undefeated with a record of 5 & 0. Let me know what your record is when you have 1,000 wins.

Once again, I would say I am one of your biggest supporters in your strategy. I started the same way. I just modified it with time. I will be over 200,000/hr by week's end.
I am passionate about camping like you. But turtling by my definition is not leveling at all cost. I should have probably made it more clear about my objective and how it relates to my guide.

My objective:
No missions, no attacks, no raids, no leveling whatsoever.
Maintain perfect win loss record.
Have the strongest economy for my level.
Spend 0 gold.

I realize from an economy perspective that having more income producing buildings available is always the best option. This is what you have chose to pursue and it is what I would do as well if I did not want to follow my first 3 objectives.
I also do not want to play the game as actively as you at the moment. I literally log in between 1-4 times a day to collect. I miss a lot of collections so it is not an optimum income producing strategy for me at this moment. I spent more time on the forums then I do playing both MW and CC. The beauty of my system is that I don't need to worry about reprisals/revenge attacks/raids and no attrition of units. We can all agree as you level up you are going to run into more experienced players. Rivals get to formulate a better strategy and learn from mistakes. As I don't have a clock running and I understand that MW is not a race I choose to play at a snails pace.

You are probably in the top 1% in your level bracket with respect to your income and stats. Congratulations.

I'm striving to be number 1 in my bracket.

Happy camping.

emcee
01-23-2012, 11:41 PM
Thing is at some point you will have to level up just to unlock the next money buildings at L12 and beyond as well as at some point installing some form of defense since someone else who's turtling might employ this strategy which is to level up my attack buildings specifically my airbase and shipyard.

My objective is not to level at all. The next set of non gold income buildings is on level 8. I have a feeling that I will reach it not necessarily by winning attacks/raids but by expanding my base and/or building hourly income to the next mission goal. As a vanity purchase I changed my avatar to an Airman head and Gray Camo top/bottom. I believe that was a bad idea as it may have triggered another mission objective and pushed me up a level.
I will only jump to level 8 or above to access further income buildings once I am at level 10 across the board except for unit buildings.



Granted the other part of this mystery is by keeping to 2 allies or grunts just how 'invisible' are you to attackers. My thought is not but I do notice my rivals list is populated with pretty weak opponents.

I believe I am invisible to attackers as both accounts at level 6 have news feeds from 35/38 days ago. So zero alliance for me seems to be working as I am in the dead zone.

Dover
01-24-2012, 05:17 AM
Dont see a reason to turtle at level 6 and stuff like that. You guys all have a good enough income to be strong enough all the way through to lvl 60.

New range for top players is 60+.

You guys should get to the 50s then camp if you dont want to get destroyed yet.
At least youll have more money buildings to work with and be more powerful.

Also dont expect to compete with the big gold buyers. Its easy tp go against the guys whove spent under 1K. But there are plenty who have spent way more in the top levels. You either go in expecting losses or you stay out permanently.

Currently impossible to be safe from Stephen (Speed ump) as a free player. Last i checked he has over 95000 attack. Maximum defence for a free player is 92000 with an army of 2000 aircraft carriers. You can win some battles, but he'll come out on top and still be able to raid you no problem.

And it'd cost you 10.8 billion dollars. Which even on an average income of 500,000 per hour, assuming you get every dollar possible, would take you 900 days. Good Luck

EDIT: Well actually with 10% bonus from UK, you'd be at 101200 defense. But he'll soon be higher that in attack, so still no chance.

I like this post JMC, you have stated what I have thought and mentioned yesterday. We (MW) has gotten to the point where, if you want to have fun and not get riddled by gold buyers, there needs to be a ceiling for free users. A level that if you dont plan to spend 1000's of $/ you will need to stop or you will wake up each morning with a un-friendly raid notice from Speed Ump and the like. Nothing against gold buyers, I wish I could drop a "few"bucks into the game and pick up the sweet troops but I am not able to do that so other plans need to be drawn up. So it sounds like somewhere between 45-55 is a sweet spot for free players to slow down/stop so the rich dont pound on them. But even stopping and growing our troops and maybe PvPing will level us though at a much slower pace.

Maybe I am wrong? Maybe we all keep leveling up? Why play the game if all you can say is my def is 10k and my $/H is 150K at level 10? May have to re-think things in a few levels. Still a very nice post JMC.

P4TR1C14N
01-24-2012, 06:16 AM
I like this post JMC, you have stated what I have thought and mentioned yesterday. We (MW) has gotten to the point where, if you want to have fun and not get riddled by gold buyers, there needs to be a ceiling for free users. A level that if you dont plan to spend 1000's of $/ you will need to stop or you will wake up each morning with a un-friendly raid notice from Speed Ump and the like. Nothing against gold buyers, I wish I could drop a "few"bucks into the game and pick up the sweet troops but I am not able to do that so other plans need to be drawn up. So it sounds like somewhere between 45-55 is a sweet spot for free players to slow down/stop so the rich dont pound on them. But even stopping and growing our troops and maybe PvPing will level us though at a much slower pace.

Maybe I am wrong? Maybe we all keep leveling up? Why play the game if all you can say is my def is 10k and my $/H is 150K at level 10? May have to re-think things in a few levels. Still a very nice post JMC.

Dover, your post is exactly what my feeling is. On the other hand... this game has many aspects such as:
- Money production
- Attacking
- Raiding
- Missions
- Levelling

But in reality this unfortunately not the case. See below how each aspect is influenced (imho)
- Money Production: Objective measurement and available to all players (Gold and Non Gold).
- Attacking heavily depends on your attacking skill (and units). Discrepancy between Gold and Non Gold players but that's the game... you can buy a lot of units also without gold if you got patience. When going to higher levels, this patience is exactly what you don't have anymore so higher levels you're easy meat. Furthermore there a big issue with the attack loss figures. I don't understand why this doesn't get fixed or reviewed... majority of players is complaining about it and it's obviously not fair at the moment.
- Defending: same as attacking.
- Missions: Very fun to do but you get in problems as a free player when you level up too much.
- Levelling: Fun till a certain moment. High level... not done if you can't compete in an objective way.

So conclusion is that in the end (higher levels), you get forced to stop playing due to being ****d by gold players (investors) or you keep playing at low level only for the pleasure of expanding your base.

The last is imho not why i want to play such strategy game.

The game has so much potential but the balance is not yet what it should be.

osubuckeye
01-24-2012, 08:57 AM
Amazing post JMC

I need to stop spending time on this, I can't afford to compete.

I was thinking about how a lot of games nowadays have DLC content for extra $$. Also how this DLC content might give you a "boost", or how sometimes you get a pre-order item that will do the same.

However, the unlimited supply of gold for cash in this game makes it so the rich can absolutely murder us, not just get a boost.

Praises to funzio for finding a way to get the spoiled top percent to dish out some of their cash for a few 1's and 0's. I feel a bit like a farm animal being herded by a stick and a carrot at the end.

Perhaps someone could create a game fueled by ads or a pay-to-play game based on the success of these two titles (CC & MW), where we can compete based on skill and time, not how spoiled we are.

emcee
01-24-2012, 03:55 PM
Dont see a reason to turtle at level 6 and stuff like that. You guys all have a good enough income to be strong enough all the way through to lvl 60.

New range for top players is 60+.

You guys should get to the 50s then camp if you dont want to get destroyed yet.
At least youll have more money buildings to work with and be more powerful.

Also dont expect to compete with the big gold buyers. Its easy tp go against the guys whove spent under 1K. But there are plenty who have spent way more in the top levels. You either go in expecting losses or you stay out permanently.

Currently impossible to be safe from Stephen (Speed ump) as a free player. Last i checked he has over 95000 attack. Maximum defence for a free player is 92000 with an army of 2000 aircraft carriers. You can win some battles, but he'll come out on top and still be able to raid you no problem.

And it'd cost you 10.8 billion dollars. Which even on an average income of 500,000 per hour, assuming you get every dollar possible, would take you 900 days. Good Luck

EDIT: Well actually with 10% bonus from UK, you'd be at 101200 defense. But he'll soon be higher that in attack, so still no chance.

Well actually my objective is to compete with gold players as I will dump almost all skill points moving forward into attack. Having a high attack skills multiplier with max alliance and the best possible units to buy will be very formidable. Keep in mind the posted attack and defense points is not an entirely accurate figure as the attack and defense multiplier is another story.

I will never see this so called Stephen unless the level brackets change dramatically. Maybe eventually there will be an open bracket from level 100-150. Nonetheless when I choose to level I will be a force to reckon with.

nighthunter
01-24-2012, 09:35 PM
Well actually my objective is to compete with gold players as I will dump almost all skill points moving forward into attack. Having a high attack skills multiplier with max alliance and the best possible units to buy will be very formidable. Keep in mind the posted attack and defense points is not an entirely accurate figure as the attack and defense multiplier is another story.

I will never see this so called Stephen unless the level brackets change dramatically. Maybe eventually there will be an open bracket from level 100-150. Nonetheless when I choose to level I will be a force to reckon with.
I didn't plan to say anything anymore but this is just too ludicrous...
ATM you don't have a stronger economy than ppl who started the game later or around the same time as you did, so how on earth do you plan to build a "stronger economy" than someone who has 1500 energy which in turn means $2 mil /day (please do let me know if there's better $ place than railgun)?
Maybe the ultimate plan was to not level before everyone else quit? That would actually fit

JMC
01-24-2012, 11:43 PM
Well actually my objective is to compete with gold players as I will dump almost all skill points moving forward into attack. Having a high attack skills multiplier with max alliance and the best possible units to buy will be very formidable. Keep in mind the posted attack and defense points is not an entirely accurate figure as the attack and defense multiplier is another story.

I will never see this so called Stephen unless the level brackets change dramatically. Maybe eventually there will be an open bracket from level 100-150. Nonetheless when I choose to level I will be a force to reckon with.

Youre overestimating how much power your money will get you. The majority of a free players power is from valor units. My army is worth about 80million dollars and 62% of my power comes from valor units. Then loot units probably contribute 5%.

Also dont know if it was you or someone else saying that they were better than someone else because your income per hour was slightly higher at a much lower level. But, the only reason your income per hour is higher is becauae that is all you upgrade. Eventually when you decide to level up youre going to have to upgrade your unit buildings and your income per hour will plateau.

You will be stronger than the people around you, and you'll probably be able to compete with those gold buyers whove spent under $1000, but thats hardly a challenge. Turtling at low levels is a waste of time.

Dover
01-25-2012, 05:19 AM
Youre overestimating how much power your money will get you. The majority of a free players power is from valor units. My army is worth about 80million dollars and 62% of my power comes from valor units. Then loot units probably contribute 5%.

My I ask you where all the valor comes from? I have saved up about 3200 valor by adding allies and attacking people. Are there any maps that award valor? I am trying to collect as much as I can but it seems to be a slow up hill battle. TY.

Wildfire
01-25-2012, 05:41 AM
My I ask you where all the valor comes from? I have saved up about 3200 valor by adding allies and attacking people. Are there any maps that award valor? I am trying to collect as much as I can but it seems to be a slow up hill battle. TY.
The valor comes from the PVP missions you get under your goals, many were relying mostly on them to rank up when the losses were lower, I can currently see Force Degradation Operation 92 for example which is probably worth 500-600 valor. The problem is making the valor work at a good profit needed sustainable losses when carrying out the missions, so it doesn't currently work, the losses are more than you can gain on most missions.

Dover
01-25-2012, 05:46 AM
The valor comes from the PVP missions you get under your goals, many were relying mostly on them to rank up when the losses were lower, I can currently see Force Degradation Operation 92 for example which is probably worth 500-600 valor. The problem is making the valor work at a good profit needed sustainable losses when carrying out the missions, so it doesn't currently work, the losses are more than you can gain on most missions.

Thx Wildfire. I was doing those PvP missions to get the valor I have but stopped because it was costing more to collect the valor. Seemed like I was lucky to breakeven at the end of the day. Level wise I am tough spot, I see all people my level and allie size but no one has any exposed cash laying around so there is no reward at the moment for PvPing except the valor from completing those quests(missions). Darn people leveling their vaults and spending their extra cash!

Wildfire
01-25-2012, 06:56 AM
Thx Wildfire. I was doing those PvP missions to get the valor I have but stopped because it was costing more to collect the valor. Seemed like I was lucky to breakeven at the end of the day. Level wise I am tough spot, I see all people my level and allie size but no one has any exposed cash laying around so there is no reward at the moment for PvPing except the valor from completing those quests(missions). Darn people leveling their vaults and spending their extra cash!

Yes that's sort of the problem, those who'd kept up with the available PVP missions as they went along earlier when they could do them with low losses have lots of valor units or stored up valor points. Now people trying to do the same are doing them in a much more hostile environment, I know I basically stopped as soon as I realised how much I was losing.

Not quite sure what to do now because the vault increases so slowly, everytime I try to save up money outside it someone very strong or with a lot of gold units comes along and takes it away along with a lot of my units too. So really all I'm doing is levelling up through the XP earned from loot farming and upgrading some buildings, next building I can buy is 8000000 so no chance of saving for that for a while!

JMC
01-25-2012, 09:29 AM
Current valor missions for me reward about 1400 valor each. When the casualty rate was right i could search for weak players with lots of allies and attack with zero casualties.

Dover
01-25-2012, 09:35 AM
Current valor missions for me reward about 1400 valor each. When the casualty rate was right i could search for weak players with lots of allies and attack with zero casualties.

When you say Valor Missions do you mean the Goals they give us for PvP or map missions?

emcee
01-25-2012, 10:43 PM
I didn't plan to say anything anymore but this is just too ludicrous...
ATM you don't have a stronger economy than ppl who started the game later or around the same time as you did, so how on earth do you plan to build a "stronger economy" than someone who has 1500 energy which in turn means $2 mil /day (please do let me know if there's better $ place than railgun)?
Maybe the ultimate plan was to not level before everyone else quit? That would actually fit
I don't know why you are still making apples to oranges comparisons. As I have reiterated I am competing against people in my bracket not people who started the same time as me or someone who installed the game today and will level up way past my level in a matter of days. The latter will only apply to me when they are at level 6 not level 3, not level 10 or level 50. Discussions about anyone not at my level, Stephen or someone with 1500 energy is a moot point.

So for people at my level I am striving to have the best economy, perfect win loss stats, no attrition and playing infrequently. If you analyze my strategy without taking into consideration all of my objectives then you are going to find holes in my logic. I can easily go up to level 50 have a lot more buildings at my disposal to earn more income per hour. Obviously from a camping perspective having all available buildings producing income is the logical choice. However, I know I will lose fights, get raided, lose units and have to play a lot more often just to maintain an enviable win loss percentage.
All those listing their win, raid victories, income per hour, etc hardly ever mention what their loss stats are. I know maintaining perfect stats is impossible but I'm going to try for as long as possible. As I level up I will have the best units and max defensive buildings just to maintain this. It is not realistic, just as ultra camping is but it is how I am playing the game in the meantime.

emcee
01-25-2012, 11:11 PM
Youre overestimating how much power your money will get you. The majority of a free players power is from valor units. My army is worth about 80million dollars and 62% of my power comes from valor units. Then loot units probably contribute 5%.

I agree the majority of free players power is from valor units. However, most will agree I am not the majority. I have 15 income producing buildings at level 6. All are at level 5-7. Income per hour is 124,275. Not sure what level 10 total income will be for all 15 buildings but I'm guessing at least 200,000 per hour. Once income buildings are upgraded I will move to unit buildings. So by level 10 I should have have max income buildings all upgraded to level 10 with unit buildings upgraded to a great degree as well not to mention an enormous vault.
With that said my army will be a force to contend with as I can purchase the best and win pvp at will and complete an odd mission as well.



Also dont know if it was you or someone else saying that they were better than someone else because your income per hour was slightly higher at a much lower level. But, the only reason your income per hour is higher is becauae that is all you upgrade. Eventually when you decide to level up youre going to have to upgrade your unit buildings and your income per hour will plateau.

Logically all I am upgrading are income buildings except for a few defense buildings. Once all the income buildings are at level 10 then unit buildings are next. Income will not plateau. They will be at level 10 figures.



You will be stronger than the people around you, and you'll probably be able to compete with those gold buyers whove spent under $1000, but thats hardly a challenge. Turtling at low levels is a waste of time.

I don't know why people say that turtling is a waste of time. Modern War is not a race to level 200. There are no deadlines. Anyone not attacking, raiding, doing missions is technically turtling/camping at one time or another. So when you sleep I contend that is a waste of time. You should sleep less and attack more or better yet give your phone to someone else who will play while you are turtling for 8 hours.
Camping builds income which makes you stronger. Maybe people at higher levels like you camping may not be as viable an option compared to me as you are getting attacked and raided all the time. With the right strategy and patience I contend that camping is beneficial for all.
If there was an operating cost to maintaining buildings per hour or I was getting pummeled by attacks or raids and losing income your argument may have some merit.

What you and many players don't understand or the developers will not elaborate any further is the impact of the attack multiplier. All those valor units are great and I will get access to them as well. However, how many players out there will choose not to follow the narrative of this game (dumping skill points into energy) and instead invest almost all skill points into attack and a few into stamina. I may not have as many valor units as someone with 1500 energy but I am willing to bet that the extra 150 attack points coupled with max alliance (when I choose to exit camping mode) and an income to purchase the best weapons, etc will be quite a force to reckon with. How many threads are there in Modern War and Crime City about someone with a low post attack score can defeat someone with a much higher defense. Its obvious to me that its the attack multiplier in play. So imagine someone like me employing this method to a greater degree and its impact.

JackRakan93
01-25-2012, 11:14 PM
People generally use strategies in order to gain some sort of edge in order to make their gameplay more enjoyable. There is no one strategy that is the "best" way to go about playing the game, especially considering people have different objectives when it comes to getting that motivation to continue playing the game. Whether that objective is collecting awesome valor units, having a near perfect win-loss record, reaching maximum economy, or actually getting those impossible gamecenter achievements, it's useless to debate strategies when each side has different motives.

Personally, I use a hybrid approach where I turtle for a bit to gain an edge in my bracket. Purchase some decent attack units, attack and raid for valor, and then level up until I can unlock a new money or defense building. My W-L record is about 300-8, which I take pride in. However, I avoid the stagnation that turns many off when using the turtle approach.

So for those lost in what they should be doing, simply pick an objective you enjoy and choose the method that best suits your interests.

JackRakan93
01-25-2012, 11:21 PM
And to elaborate on my hybrid approach, I have yet to lose from an opposing raid or attack, implying all my losses were of my own carelessness or an accident when attacking. Simply keeping aware of your position in your current bracket should garner you with "enviable" W-L records.

Deskjockey
01-26-2012, 04:02 AM
Amen to what Jack said. I use the same hybrid approach because it fits with my goals for the game. It may not suit others, but to each their own. My record stands at 1955 wins to 142 losses in attacks and 470 and 4 in raids. I'm about to shift into extreme turtle mode right now because I'm at level 48 and have no desire to cross the level 50 threshold that will expose me to the gold whales. We'll see how that goes.

Muse_boa
03-29-2013, 11:04 AM
I basically did what nighthawk did, on instinct (to play agressive) and because it's fun. After a day or two i could figure out who to attack by searching for ranks and since then i lost no battles. But i think after four days of playing i noticed my d/a stats were bad compared to a lot of the other players on my level. Since then i decided to do three things. Go for sergeant rank as soon a possible, spend all my valor points (i had al lot) and spend all my money. I think the strategy of going under the radar worked so far, because i seldomly get attacked. And in the meantime did wde to get the deadly bridge jumper. The seventh day after i started playing got the rank of sergeant (well i'm proud of that). But now i'm at level 28 with d/a stats around 2500. I think that's not good enough when you are reaching higher levels, so i think i have to camp out for a while and get the stats to 3500. No fun at all, but i think i have no choice. Or is there another way to get the d/a stats up?

Ghost Recon
03-29-2013, 11:12 AM
I basically did what nighthawk did, on instinct (to play agressive) and because it's fun. After a day or two i could figure out who to attack by searching for ranks and since then i lost no battles. But i think after four days of playing i noticed my d/a stats were bad compared to a lot of the other players on my level. Since then i decided to do three things. Go for sergeant rank as soon a possible, spend all my valor points (i had al lot) and spend all my money. I think the strategy of going under the radar worked so far, because i seldomly get attacked. And in the meantime did wde to get the deadly bridge jumper. The seventh day after i started playing got the rank of sergeant (well i'm proud of that). But now i'm at level 28 with d/a stats around 2500. I think that's not good enough when you are reaching higher levels, so i think i have to camp out for a while and get the stats to 3500. No fun at all, but i think i have no choice. Or is there another way to get the d/a stats up?Be careful not to necro (Post in old threads). It could get you banned.

Muse_boa
03-29-2013, 11:18 AM
I'm sorry, i didn't know that

Ghost Recon
03-29-2013, 11:23 AM
I'm sorry, i didn't know thatIt's fine, just make sure to check the posting dates before posting on the thread :)

usgoldbureau25
05-15-2013, 12:41 AM
Thanks for sharing these information about buying gold .

Tito89
05-15-2013, 12:58 AM
The key really is to do well in boss and energy events like extreme measures. Since I was lv 34 about a month ago I have done all if these events well and gone to lv 53 and gained 30000 attack and defence. I had a poor 12000 ATK and def at lv 34. You just have to be smart and set a goal in these events and do your best to reach it. When I found out about the warlord siege tank having a bonus I made sure I could get it, and did. When I saw the mercenary striker from the Diaz boss I aimed to have it, these are my two most powerful units and I'm soon going to one day finish a boss battle or 40 energy missions. PS I started playing near the end of the second world domination event in February. :)

Armand2REP
05-15-2013, 01:05 AM
The key really is to do well in boss and energy events like extreme measures. Since I was lv 34 about a month ago I have done all if these events well and gone to lv 53 and gained 30000 attack and defence. I had a poor 12000 ATK and def at lv 34. You just have to be smart and set a goal in these events and do your best to reach it. When I found out about the warlord siege tank having a bonus I made sure I could get it, and did. When I saw the mercenary striker from the Diaz boss I aimed to have it, these are my two most powerful units and I'm soon going to one day finish a boss battle or 40 energy missions. PS I started playing near the end of the second world domination event in February. :)

And you can do that... for awhile. Leveling up so fast however will make the boss event near impossible to complete without huge amounts of med packs. Of course the higher you go, the bigger the whales get and your stats that looked impressive last month are dwarfed. Don't be in such a rush to play this game, if you go too fast you will get stomped. Try to keep it within 10 levels a month and you will be unbeatable until you hit gold players. It will be much cheaper to get units if you beat the boss at low levels.

Tito89
05-15-2013, 01:10 AM
And you can do that... for awhile. Leveling up so fast however will make the boss event near impossible to complete without huge amounts of med packs. Of course the higher you go, the bigger the whales get and your stats that looked impressive last month are dwarfed. Don't be in such a rush to play this game, if you go too fast you will get stomped. Try to keep it within 10 levels a month and you will be unbeatable until you hit gold players. It will be much cheaper to get units if you beat the boss at low levels.

Fair point. I'm happy with my way though. If I get smacked a lot by stronger players I'm cool with that, I can replace units easily and I never lose money cause my vault is at 10 mill, any over that I immediately donate on top if my 2.5 mill a day. Thanx anyway tho:)

Armand2REP
05-15-2013, 01:52 AM
Fair point. I'm happy with my way though. If I get smacked a lot by stronger players I'm cool with that, I can replace units easily and I never lose money cause my vault is at 10 mill, any over that I immediately donate on top if my 2.5 mill a day. Thanx anyway tho:)

Your spending money on cash units while i spend it on LE buildings and a free indestructible army. ;)

King little fruit fly
05-15-2013, 02:00 AM
Why bother to camp now with the the LTQ events??