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View Full Version : But I don't wanna turtle......



Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 07:24 AM
I'm nearing level 70 and my income is only $13235/hr and my attack/defense stats aren't exceptional. I really hate the idea of not farming/trying to really do anything but build an economy, but it seems like that might be the best solution right now. Thoughts on the matter?

duder
01-19-2012, 08:01 AM
Er, to spout advice folks have streamed before:

Drop mafia?
Farm M1A4s?
Make certain your atk/mafia reaches a certain threshold (is it 30? 40? 50? what do I know, I'm at 12)?
Keep attacking and robbing opponents to build up respect, then use it wisely (nvb? yamas? chain whips?)?

My thoughts:
If you can get a good atk/mafia, you can probably strongly augment your cash flow by attacking high value (in terms of $) buildings like high level warehouses, houses, and (?) gun shops; maybe beachside inns, internet companies, leveled up MTs, and lofts too.
You can also target high respect buildings (meat stores, clothing stores) and build your respect up that way.
I guess you can also try to farm good pvp drops too... though that seems more uncertain

I don't know whether you'd consider this turtling, but you'll be using all your energy and all your respect

... and folks think all I do is pay attention to economics posts...

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 08:12 AM
I don't really understand the concept of dropping mafia. Mafia members only help you by being in fights when they occur, right? They don't make you more visible or less visible on the rivals list, and it doesn't seem like a good strategy to not have people helping you fight.

I just feel grossly under-leveled in attack/defense for the level I'm at. I figure getting a stronger economy going will help out at least a little.

duder
01-19-2012, 08:22 AM
I was under the impression that mafia did still restrict the rivals list (though maybe not to the extent that it used to)?

Again, this is just my take, but if your economy is that woefully short, don't worry about your defense (what do you lose if you get robbed?), worry about being able to see rivals you can beat. The screenshots I've seen, seem to indicate that generally, you'll still see folks around your mafia level in your rival list. If you have a high atk/mafia, and you mostly see rivals with a similar number of mafia, it goes to reason that your overall atk will be higher than their overall defense. This means you will be able to beat up a larger % of your rivals list.

Again, this is my take, but I would think the key here is to generate the most that you can from your stamina. If you have a large number of rivals that you can pillage over and over again, you'll be able to get more out of your stamina than if you have to constantly refresh your rivals list to find a good target.

At the end of the day, take my advice with a grain of salt - I'm freaking level 9, and I haven't been in the mines where you are. Further, once I get there, I'll have a completely skewed view based on the overall strategy I'm pursuing. If you post a little more information (like your attack/defense/mafia size and maybe something about where the bulk of your attack comes from), folks who have been there might be able to give some more concrete advice.

Anubis
01-19-2012, 08:25 AM
I don't really understand the concept of dropping mafia. Mafia members only help you by being in fights when they occur, right? They don't make you more visible or less visible on the rivals list, and it doesn't seem like a good strategy to not have people helping you fight.


I fullty agree, I see ppl in my rivals that have less tha 100 mafia at times (Im lvl125) . Just sems silly. Get your mafia's sorted out. By Higher level you WILL need them.

I got good mafia att/def, and whne I do th calculation I havw over 60att per mafia, but reducing from 500 to 499 only takes 32 att offl

Add to 400-500 and enter the real game.

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 08:55 AM
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4961/50942941.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/217/50942941.png/)


My "Fights Lost" is largely due to the fact that I didn't do ANY PvP till around lvl 50 and so didn't care too much about defense or attack. Actually, my whole set of robbery and fight stats are crappy because of this reason :( Personal attack/defense is 26/20. I have 85 M4A1's which account for about half of my attack, the rest is just from random weapons and 23 SGs (5 or 6 other melee weapons with comparable att stats). The fact that I didn't do PvP for a while and now I have to pointedly search my rivals list for someone to attack (like, maybe 2 or 3 on the initial 50 are weak enough for me to attack) makes PvPing for loot and such more difficult for me than for most (I assume).

Amber_
01-19-2012, 09:05 AM
Do you have a decent stamina? If not, build up your stamina and fight like hell. Loot from pvp helped me major in the mid-levels, I never had to buy any weapons. So just fight a lot to get weapons from loot, that will really raise your stats.

Ohaithere
01-19-2012, 09:05 AM
What have you been spending respect on? I have 220 mafia and a few levels below, I too have 84 m4 s or so but have like 6500 attack. I have 2 exc car things, 96 nvb and 50 yams. You need a lot more armour so try investing in nvbs?

whocareswhatmynameis
01-19-2012, 09:06 AM
you are in serious trouble. your att/defense stats are probably in the lowest 10 percentile for your level as demonstrated by the high loss ratio and your admission that it is difficult to find opponents for PvP. although lowering mafia size may not have the allure that it once held, i would still recommend that you downsize to 50-100. this may provide you with a respectable attack ratio (since you already have 85 M4A1s) and a more competitive rival list. your new situation will allow you to collect respect points and PvP loots. you can concomitantly work on your economy- build new buildings and upgrade existing ones. the climb from low stats will be difficult but not impossible. you just need to have patience! good luck!

xclusiv
01-19-2012, 09:07 AM
do not invest into the low or mid tier respect items, invest in only the high items like chainwhips and combat gear,

with all these new thug life and hardcore hitman missions, it is very possible to obtain 500 of each. and you will be better off in the long run

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 09:08 AM
What have you been spending respect on? I have 220 mafia and a few levels below, I too have 84 m4 s or so but have like 6500 attack. I have 2 exc car things, 96 nvb and 50 yams. You need a lot more armour so try investing in nvbs?

If you look at my fights/robberies won you'll see that I haven't gotten a great deal of RPs. The ones I have gotten have been used on NVBs though. When I do fight I usually just rob though, should I make more of an effort to attack instead of just rob?

Ohaithere
01-19-2012, 09:16 AM
Don't blind attack, try doing the fighting goals you get set then you get given rp and items. Just go to a hood, check out their profile to see If they have weaker stats than you and if so attack, that way you can get through goals easily and quickly.

Max Power
01-19-2012, 09:18 AM
With numbers like that, turtling is practically a requirement at this point.

The strongest players in this game are fighters or real money spenders. Those are your options. I would starting doing nothing but PvP and farming M4s. Robbing is a lure because of the immediate cash payout, but it never drops weapons like fighting does. That is why you are so far behind.

Start fighting or get out the credit card.

Ohaithere
01-19-2012, 09:20 AM
I tried using search button but can't figure how to post screen shot, any help? I can take them but ot sure how to copy paste here

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 09:23 AM
Upload it to www.imageshack.us that's all I did.


So what should I buy with my economy money? It seems the gun I need comes from looting, the armor and melee I need will come from RPs, explosives I can (obviously) and I don't really know much about vehicles, like where to get the best ones.

Max Power
01-19-2012, 09:24 AM
Upload it to www.imageshack.us (http://www.imageshack.us) that's all I did.


So what should I buy with my economy money? It seems the gun I need comes from looting, the armor and melee I need will come from RPs, explosives I can (obviously) and I don't really know much about vehicles, like where to get the best ones.

Use your money to upgrade and build money buildings. Then you can buy Steel Garrotes like a boss.

Ohaithere
01-19-2012, 09:24 AM
I think buying weeps and stuff is a bit of a waste but. A prob wrong, just spend all ur rp energy and stam on fighting goals and farming so you will level slower and get more weps

whocareswhatmynameis
01-19-2012, 09:26 AM
Upload it to www.imageshack.us that's all I did.


So what should I buy with my economy money? It seems the gun I need comes from looting, the armor and melee I need will come from RPs, explosives I can (obviously) and I don't really know much about vehicles, like where to get the best ones.

your economy is not strong enough to support weapon purchases. i recommend you build your economy first. PvP loots should give you decent melee and armor weapons. if you don't want to turtle, M4A1s farming is another option available for you. but i urge you to consider downsizing. see how you fare for a few days, if you are not happy, you can build up your mob back to current size.

Twinkie
01-19-2012, 09:30 AM
I fullty agree, I see ppl in my rivals that have less tha 100 mafia at times (Im lvl125) . Just sems silly. Get your mafia's sorted out. By Higher level you WILL need them.

I got good mafia att/def, and whne I do th calculation I havw over 60att per mafia, but reducing from 500 to 499 only takes 32 att offl

Add to 400-500 and enter the real game.


Hey anubis, you're at 125? I'm doing Hitman round 57, wins fights against players 125 or greater. I'm gonna remove you from my friend's list, then attack you like crazy to fulfill my goal. Then afterward I'll add ya again buddy. Lol, but you're too strong. Suckiesss. I'll be lucky to win 1 fight.

Holicaholic, like everyone say, the best way is to fight. Invest your R points wisely, like xclusiv said, in high weapons. I made the mistake at the beginning of robbing alot, not much fighting. I pretty much got nowhere and really weak. Now I don't rob a rival unless I can get away with at least 20K. Anything else is not worth it. The more you fight, the more you pick up loot stuff, shorts, police jackets, armored police trucks, etc. I raised my fights win/lost ratio from like 2500/9000 to 14500/12000 now. BOOYAHHHH.

Swifty
01-19-2012, 09:31 AM
Steep learning curve to this game.

Easy to play, hard to master.

Ohaithere
01-19-2012, 09:32 AM
Ugh do I need vlast to work image shack and other sites, how can I do it on iPad?

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 09:34 AM
your economy is not strong enough to support weapon purchases. i recommend you build your economy first. PvP loots should give you decent melee and armor weapons. if you don't want to turtle, M4A1s farming is another option available for you. but i urge you to consider downsizing. see how you fare for a few days, if you are not happy, you can build up your mob back to current size.

I just don't understand the point of downsizing. If I have even one mafia member who only has a 1/0 rating doesn't that 1 attack help?

Ohaithere
01-19-2012, 09:36 AM
If you have one extra mafia then your rivals are likely to have one more mafia too and they might have higher attack for that marginal mafia member so you need to work out the optimum number of mafia to have, at your current state it might be worth having fewer maffia and higher attack or just don't add any more mafia until you get more weapons and armour and stronger

whocareswhatmynameis
01-19-2012, 09:47 AM
I just don't understand the point of downsizing. If I have even one mafia member who only has a 1/0 rating doesn't that 1 attack help?

not if you will be paired to fight with a rival whose least equipped mafia has better rating than 1/0. like i said in my previous post, the rival list algorithm may have changed, but there are still people who still swear by it. your new rival list will show players who have small mafia size like you. since you have decent number of M4A1s, you should be competitive with less mafia size. what do you have to lose by trying it out? the worst case scenario is: the strategy doesn't work... solution: add back mafia members (easy if you use this forum to advertise your code). i wouldn't have suggested this strategy if you weren't in such a dire situation.

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 09:48 AM
If you have one extra mafia then your rivals are likely to have one more mafia too and they might have higher attack for that marginal mafia member so you need to work out the optimum number of mafia to have, at your current state it might be worth having fewer maffia and higher attack or just don't add any more mafia until you get more weapons and armour and stronger

But my rival will still get to attack me with that extra member. As far as I know it doesn't matter if you have less mafia than your rival, you will both fight with the max number you have.

Ohaithere
01-19-2012, 09:51 AM
If you have fewer mafia then your rival list will show people with fewer mafia members and therefore lower stats, the same goes for higher mafia members, if you have more you see people with similar numbers of mafia members.

If you delete mafia sown to 150 or so then you will be seen by and see other members with around 150 mafia members, and as who cares says, you will have fairly good stats compares to others with only 150 mafia because you have lots of m14s

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 09:55 AM
If you have fewer mafia then your rival list will show people with fewer mafia members and therefore lower stats, the same goes for higher mafia members, if you have more you see people with similar numbers of mafia members.

If you delete mafia sown to 150 or so then you will be seen by and see other members with around 150 mafia members, and as who cares says, you will have fairly good stats compares to others with only 150 mafia because you have lots of m14s


I've been told by members that have been here longer than you and me combined that the rivals list is displayed according to level, not mafia size. I can see some people on my list that have 50 members less than the limit of their level, so removing mafia just doesn't make sense to me if I'm still going to be seen by people on my level who have the maximum amount.

Ohaithere
01-19-2012, 09:58 AM
Iv only got my mafia member up over past few days but I found tht it is on level but having less mafia means you see far more lower mafia players and now I have more mafia (which I got for fight goals as I needed to see people wit more mfia) I see far more players wit more mafia and far less with low numbers of mafia. I'm still learning though so it is worth taking others advice

whocareswhatmynameis
01-19-2012, 10:06 AM
I've been told by members that have been here longer than you and me combined that the rivals list is displayed according to level, not mafia size. I can see some people on my list that have 50 members less than the limit of their level, so removing mafia just doesn't make sense to me if I'm still going to be seen by people on my level who have the maximum amount.

1. i have been playing this game for 4 months.
2. i have successfully employed "mean but lean" strategy a while back (from lvl 30 to mid 70s). proof of success: my stat is in the top 5% for my level.
3. there are people at your level and beyond who still utilize this strategy.

if this hasn't convinced you, i don't know what will. at any rate, i wish you best of luck!

Max Power
01-19-2012, 10:08 AM
I've been told by members that have been here longer than you and me combined that the rivals list is displayed according to level, not mafia size.

Well, that's debatable. The algorithm has changed back and forth over time.

You can try it, or don't. Your call.

Your stats indicate that you haven't figured this game out on your own, so you should probably at least give these theories a listen. Not trying to be harsh, but if reducing your mob size actually does limit your rival list, it will put you in a much better position.

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 10:17 AM
1. i have been playing this game for 4 months.
2. i have successfully employed "mean but lean" strategy a while back (from lvl 30 to mid 70s). proof of success: my stat is in the top 5% for my level.
3. there are people at your level and beyond who still utilize this strategy.

if this hasn't convinced you, i don't know what will. at any rate, i wish you best of luck!

This is my reasoning, and if it doesn't make sense then that's fine, but this is why I am against removing mafia. And everything I'm about to say is dealing with hypothetical attack/defense, so the numbers don't represent any actual weapons.

I have 200 mafia, and my opponent has 350 mafia; both of us have enough good weapons to outfit our mob with 200 weapons/armor/vehicles to achieve an attack/defense score of 40/40 per member. That means that we are equally matched up to 8000/8000. After that though, he has 150 more members than I do, meaning he can outfit his mafia with, at the very worst one 0/1 weapon per member, meaning the attack defense ratio is now 8000/8150 and we are no longer matched, even though I have the weapons to outfit more members.

Even if you only have 0/1 or 1/0 on a member, that member will still help in some form or fashion, no matter how little. And when you get a new weapon of better stats it will obviously make that member even more valuable.

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 10:19 AM
Ok, I'll try it. I guess you're right, I don't really have anything to lose from it. What size would you all recommend me taking it down to?

Tramp Stamp
01-19-2012, 10:19 AM
In a nutshell, rival list mechanics work like this:

"Show the 20 closest players in level and mafia count"

with a randomization feature thrown in to avoid showing the same players over and over again.

There are dead zones, usually around middle-of-the-pack-mafia sizes, where you get a swing in mafia counts. When a higher count person attacks, it's because there aren't enough players close to him and his list is going down rather than up, which is generally how it works. In fact, unless you're maxed out you should just assume that you're always visible to people with 50%+ more mafia. But as others are suggesting it's a sliding scale. You will still be vulnerable to higher count players but progressively less so as you drop members. As for not wanting to turtle, the longer you wait the harder it gets due to thinning player counts at higher levels. Eventually dropping members will do nothing at all.

If you rob anything, stick to level 7 Laundromats as much as possible to maximize respect:exp ratio. Also farm M4s at Pier 13 to maximize M4:exp ratio.

Tramp Stamp
01-19-2012, 10:25 AM
Ok, I'll try it. I guess you're right, I don't really have anything to lose from it. What size would you all recommend me taking it down to?

Base it around M4 count. Personally I target M4s + 5 but it depends on what other stuff you have.

P.S. How could you pass up the chance to use the ligature in your player name?

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 10:26 AM
In a nutshell, rival list mechanics work like this:

"Show the 20 closest players in level and mafia count"

with a randomization feature thrown in to avoid showing the same players over and over again.

There are dead zones, usually around middle-of-the-pack-mafia sizes, where you get a swing in mafia counts. When a higher count person attacks, it's because there aren't enough players close to him and his list is going down rather than up, which is generally how it works. In fact, unless you're maxed out you should just assume that you're always visible to people with 50%+ more mafia. But as others are suggesting it's a sliding scale. You will still be vulnerable to higher count players but progressively less so as you drop members. As for not wanting to turtle, the longer you wait the harder it gets due to thinning player counts at higher levels. Eventually dropping members will do nothing at all.

If you rob anything, stick to level 7 Laundromats as much as possible to maximize respect:exp ratio. Also farm M4s at Pier 13 to maximize M4:exp ratio.

Where are they at pier 13? And what's the drop rate there?

whocareswhatmynameis
01-19-2012, 10:30 AM
Base it around M4 count. Personally I target M4s + 5 but it depends on what other stuff you have.



yes i agree. you will get the maximum benefit from downsizing if you correlate your size with M4A1 number.

Stitch
01-19-2012, 10:32 AM
Shipping crane 19%.

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 10:36 AM
Shipping crane 19%.

Too bad I don't have an iPad. That's a multi-hit location :(

And you also get more XP by doing that instead of the Boardwalk.....

Stitch
01-19-2012, 10:42 AM
235 single hit, unless spreadsheet is wrong. 56 xp tho.

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 10:49 AM
Spreadsheet is right, was looking at the wrong crane :P

Max Power
01-19-2012, 10:49 AM
It's the crane in the middle.

Tramp Stamp
01-19-2012, 11:06 AM
And you also get more XP by doing that instead of the Boardwalk.....

Rerun the calculation. You will find a 5.26 point advantage with Pier 13. It's minor, but, as was said, you need all the help you can get. Plus the increased energy usage will slow you down, which you need.

Holicaholic
01-19-2012, 11:08 AM
Rerun the calculation. You will find a 5.26 point advantage with Pier 13. It's minor, but, as was said, you need all the help you can get. Plus the increased energy usage will slow you down, which you need.

Yeah, I actually did the calculation before I dumped my energy. I was just looking at the wrong crane at first.

duder
01-19-2012, 12:08 PM
oh come on, over 40 posts just to start taking the advice I spewed in my first response?

... (sigh) no one respects campers...

whocareswhatmynameis
01-19-2012, 12:10 PM
oh come on, over 40 posts just to start taking the advice I spewed in my first response?

... (sigh) no one respects campers...

i have great respect and admiration for you :o

Tramp Stamp
01-19-2012, 12:23 PM
... (sigh) no one respects campers...

They do once you activate and start plowing through people.

Tramp Stamp
01-19-2012, 08:04 PM
Was just having a conversation with someone who pointed this out to me, but I never recommend Junkyard M4 farming. It's not because it's a bad location, it's because so many people claim it doesn't work for them. However, for me, results match the rate reported in allhaildiscordia's sheet, so, if you accept this then it is the best single-hit M4 location with regards to loot:exp.

Ffej
01-19-2012, 08:13 PM
Was just having a conversation with someone who pointed this out to me, but I never recommend Junkyard M4 farming. It's not because it's a bad location, it's because so many people claim it doesn't work for them. However, for me, results match the rate reported in allhaildiscordia's sheet, so, if you accept this then it is the best single-hit M4 location with regards to loot:exp.

There have been several that have claimed that the looting return rate drops off at a certain level for some locations. Is there any truth to this at all? Does level actually have any impact in looting % for specific areas? I was looting most of my M4A1s from the junkyard, but stopped and switched to the BSG because I was under the impression that once you got past level 60 or so that was the best place as far as loot:exp.

CC Urban legend??

Tramp Stamp
01-19-2012, 08:24 PM
I guess I should start keeping solid statistics. I will do so when (if) this multi-hit update comes out as I have halted M4 farming in the limbo.

DCjG
01-19-2012, 08:59 PM
I haven't been doing well on the multi-hit at all. I've done well on both the junkyard and the boardwalk but I'm sticking with the boardwalk since the $$ is better in addition to a comparable rate per energy.

Edit: I have the hd version for the iPad 2 with the latest patches and have over 400 m4a1s.