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Crazyscorp
03-26-2012, 03:18 PM
Currently my only units that can be lost are super hornets and I add an ally every time I get another 4, I am also upgrading my advanced air base to level 7 then will go to 8 to build the 3.6M 50 attack 16 def plane.

My plan is to add allies only as I add more and more of the $3.6M plane and super hornets so my weakest unit remains the super hornet at all times.

Currently I am not taking any losses because of low ally count (42), low level (40), beacuse my attack is normally 5-15 times my opponents defence or because of a bug.

I imagine which ever one of these factor is causing my losses to be zero is going to dissapear as I level, add allies which will close the att vs def gap.

When I start seeing losses the only two units that can be lost will be quite valuable (350 valor or $3.6M) so heavy losses will hurt a lot.

Will having just these two units that can be lost be asking for trouble and hence do I need to take a hit in stats and put in meat sheilds or does it not really matter anymore and the good units will still be lost at similar rates regardless.

I guess another way of asking is, If you have 2000 of one type of units do you lose a ****load of those units or lose less total units per fight

Poopenshire
03-26-2012, 03:25 PM
I hate to say it but, you might have to be a test subject here. Keep track and let us know.

Mcdoc
03-26-2012, 03:29 PM
You can still beef up on AT's right now - even though you won't take them into battle yet, they will be there ready to die for you when you Ally back up. The AT's stats are pretty balance ( 6 & 8 ) so theyre good for both low level attack & defense. If you're attacking a lot then I would find a good low cost unit with stats leaning towards attack, but if you're worried about losing units when getting attacked or raided - then the defensive units are best. I'm sure you know this already - but for the benefit of the FNG's reading this - its good to build up both good attack units & good defense units since the algorithm of who you take into battle vs who defends you are two entirely different groups of units anyway.

Glad you are having low casualty rates :)

digitalwalker
03-26-2012, 04:28 PM
Not sure about if u beef up only one type units even it is a strong one, will give a unacceptable loss.

But, u r on a very correct track, I did the similar thing as u did since few months ago I started my llp, near zero losses and good win/loss ratio. So don't worry, keep this going. As long as u r super strong than ur ravils, u will do just fine.

This currently applies only in low ally region, at least wat I have experienced, when I move to more than 300 allies, I start to lose units.

Just a side note, stealth bomber, the one u mentioned,50attack, medium casualty. Its a great unit, I got about 50ish of them, and haven't lost single of them.. Probably because of it comes from the lvl8 advance building.

I start to rethink, if ones army composite all from end game buildings, the loss is very little. U and me are the same suitiation.

bigflan
03-26-2012, 04:32 PM
You may run I to a gold person and lose a bunch of units

Agent Orange
03-26-2012, 04:33 PM
I'm thinking that if I was to do things over yet again I might employ that strategy, eg high attack and defense units above the SH and SF but as you say that means upgrading your unit buildings.

Meat shields, well if you are doing PvP you will start to collect a lot of loot units like Tree Snipers 3/0. Border Commander 7/11, Armed Steel Worker 14/14, Trafficker Gunman 5/4. For ground you wind up with a lot of Satellite Trucks 1/5 (I have 721), Battle Tanks 3/4, Mountain Citadel Tanks 10/9 and for air Jungle Helicopters 1/3 (have 720 of these). Lots of sea loot as well, one of the best is the Predator Sub 26/14 though Old Battleship 2/2, Oil Aircraft Carrier 3/5 and Mini Sub 8/6 turn up a lot. So IMHO it's better not to buy shields but to just collect them as you go along.

In terms of allies, this is always a good question and I think the best thing to do is to keep an eye on your rival list and see how you are doing compared to what you see in it.

In terms of having 2000 of a unit, well I've been toying with the idea of having an all Super Hornet army but the reality is that you will loose some no matter what and with all of one kind those will be the only units you will loose. Still I suspect if you pick your fights wisely you may be able to get by with very minimal to no losses. My current army is about 50% SH and SF or will be once I get back up to 500 allies. Just checked and right now I'm bringing to battle about 89% SH/SF's with the bulk made up of high end attack units. In the mean time I'm just collecting as much valor as I can so I can keep increasing the numbers of those units.

The one thing I am not 100% clear on is the stats for defense, in other words the game will pick your best offensive units and I suspect that is what we see in our profiles (sort of) and I hear it also picks the best units for defense, but what if you have a radically split army where you have strong attack but also strong defense and these are different units? Does the game actually pick the best defense and could this also be another factor as to why people complain about loosing to what had appeared to be an easy target?

We've always complained that something was broken but perhaps what was wrong was that it was broken before and now we are finally getting the other parameters that were broken to work....

Crazyscorp
03-26-2012, 05:06 PM
As you mentioned already I wouldn't go out and buy meat sheilds as I have 100's from pvp it is just weather I increase allies enough that units lower than a super hornet (ie units I don't care if I lose) get used.

By the way this is only refering to attacking at this stage will look at defence seperately and I guess one great thing about the stealth bomber is it has low defence so can make sure it doesn't get used in defence only issue this might back fire if I go though will my plan to switch from UK to Russia since it will then rank higher in defence than the 3:17 110k boat

digitalwalker
03-26-2012, 05:26 PM
I remember one of my buddy(forgot who is that,sorry:) on this board did mention that, he went down to about 50 allies, if I recall it right, he brought a all Superhornet army, and suffered zero losses.

I did told him that, as long as ones powers is greatly over his ravils, he should have zero losses, no matter how many units or how many allies u have. And may I just to correct it a bit here, I m in ally region 350ish, I do loss units here and there, although still much lower than most of people, and it's not like the case when I was below 300ish ally region.

About meat shields, wat I think is that, it is a shield for people have insufficient power, and who always has prepared to loss units. For an army having units density over 30 or more, meat shields are not messceray.

commandNconquer
03-26-2012, 06:35 PM
this really got my attention and i decided to cut on allies dropping from 117 to 33 just to test out a full super hornet army and see the casualty ill start noting my results and ill post back here

digitalwalker
03-26-2012, 06:38 PM
this really got my attention and i decided to cut on allies dropping from 117 to 33 just to test out a full super hornet army and see the casualty ill start noting my results and ill post back here

Be careful of extremely ally region as there r quite a few golden army. Just a kind reminder.

Mcdoc
03-26-2012, 06:38 PM
For an army having units density over 30 or more, meat shields are not messceray.

Ok - FNG question - what is meant by density? I'm seeing that more & more and I'm notmsurenwhat you guys mean.

War Priest
03-26-2012, 06:42 PM
Ok - FNG question - what is meant by density? I'm seeing that more & more and I'm notmsurenwhat you guys mean.

I am with you on that. But I think they maybe mean "average".

digitalwalker
03-26-2012, 06:42 PM
Ok - FNG question - what is meant by density? I'm seeing that more & more and I'm notmsurenwhat you guys mean.
I think it was me first rised this word to describe.

Actually, to be more accurate, we should call it average units (battle units) stat. It is ur overall attack/defence stats decided by number of units brought to battle.

Mcdoc
03-26-2012, 06:57 PM
Actually, to be more accurate, we should call it average units (battle units) stat. It is ur overall attack/defence stats decided by number of units brought to battle.

Still not sure what you're looking for or why an average is relevant?

Isn't the only thing that matters your Att/Def? Why would dividing those numbers by your Units into battle number matter?

I'm just curious - 2nd person today to use this term.

War Priest
03-26-2012, 07:01 PM
Still not sure what you're looking for or why an average is relevant?

Isn't the only thing that matters your Att/Def? Why would dividing those numbers by your Units into battle number matter?

I'm just curious - 2nd person today to use this term.

I don't get it either. It has no effect or say what so ever. My average would be 55 attack and 56 defense. Which makes my Green Dragonfly which is 310 attack look weak.

procsyzarc
03-26-2012, 07:17 PM
End game with 500 allies and 2000 units if all a stealth bombers giving a total attack of 100k. Would this be incredibly high (thinking crime city where have only seen 2 people past 100k and both would have spent $20,000+ to reach there) or are final attack figures a lot higher in modern war?

For example the highest you could get end game in crime city without gold units is 53k (before explosives) which is only just above average compared to the average end game player, so in modern war if you can get to 100k without gold does this mean it is a lot easier to be in the top tier without gold or is the general level just a lot higher so 100k is still just above average?

JMC
03-26-2012, 07:22 PM
It matters because the better stats you have per unit reflects how strong you are. If someone has 10000 attack and defence, most players really wouldnt care since that's not very high. But if he has it with like 50 units, than it means something. Low ally players want a 'dense' army so that their stats are as high as possible for their ally range.

stricker
03-26-2012, 07:38 PM
It matters because the better stats you have per unit reflects how strong you are. If someone has 10000 attack and defence, most players really wouldnt care since that's not very high. But if he has it with like 50 units, than it means something. Low ally players want a 'dense' army so that their stats are as high as possible for their ally range.
good explanation JMC.
McDoc, I asked because you said something about going down on you allies... i think you were at something like 47.

IMO, the mean unit rating helps me understand a minimum investment when adding units and about where my meat shields are going to be on lower end of the defense range.

JMC
03-26-2012, 07:44 PM
Also gonna add that basically for anyone dropping allies they want to have a good amount of strong units to make their army dense. The whole point of dropping allies aside from reducing casualties is to become a strong player in your ally range instead of being a weak player in a higher ally range.

Say someone has a max army size of 1000. On average each unit only has 8 attack/defence so his stats are 8000 att/def at 250 allies used. Now say that every single unit in his army was 8 att/def. If he dropped to 50 allies he'd only have an army strength of 1600 att/def.

Now if someone with the same army of 1000 units and same 8000 att/def wanted to drop allies but had a combination of strong units and meatshields. They could have say 250 units with 25 att/def each and 750 units with an average of 2.33 att/def. At 50 allies his army would be much more dense and a lot stronger with 6250 att/def.

stricker
03-26-2012, 08:15 PM
Also gonna add....
Well said again, JMC.

Dreno33
03-26-2012, 08:36 PM
Density is the term used to compare yourself with others on how strong your att/def numbers are according to how many units are being used in battle

Pace
03-26-2012, 08:51 PM
Also gonna add that basically for anyone dropping allies they want to have a good amount of strong units to make their army dense. The whole point of dropping allies aside from reducing casualties is to become a strong player in your ally range instead of being a weak player in a higher ally range.

Say someone has a max army size of 1000. On average each unit only has 8 attack/defence so his stats are 8000 att/def at 250 allies used. Now say that every single unit in his army was 8 att/def. If he dropped to 50 allies he'd only have an army strength of 1600 att/def.

Now if someone with the same army of 1000 units and same 8000 att/def wanted to drop allies but had a combination of strong units and meatshields. They could have say 250 units with 25 att/def each and 750 units with an average of 2.33 att/def. At 50 allies his army would be much more dense and a lot stronger with 6250 att/def.

So...why isn't everyone cutting allies to the number of their strongest unit? I'm 40 with 15 super hornets... Cut to 4 allies? At what point does the rival system stop shielding your level from artificially low allies? At a certain PoInt I imagine it says "oh you're a big boy now at level 50 - go play with those who are also level 50 and have 250 allies". And then you get lit up:

JMC
03-26-2012, 08:55 PM
So...why isn't everyone cutting allies to the number of their strongest unit? I'm 40 with 15 super hornets... Cut to 4 allies? At what point does the rival system stop shielding your level from artificially low allies? At a certain PoInt I imagine it says "oh you're a big boy now at level 50 - go play with those who are also level 50 and have 250 allies". And then you get lit up:

Don't know what level that ally count doesnt matter in the filter as it's never mattered for me. I've always been in the top tier. I know it works for all low levels because lots of people here are doing it. People don't cut allies because they don't know how the game and the rivals lists work. Pretty simple to figure it out and understand but lots of people seem to be challenged at figuring out this game.

For you, 4 allies is kinda low, i think most people cut to 30-60 allies. Not sure if cutting to 4 allies would be very beneficial since everyone you'd be fighting would probably have horrible stats and horrible income.

Aidan
03-27-2012, 12:55 AM
To add on JMC,

U need to experiment a lil bit with your rivals list. Dont just simply cut down to 4 allies as tht might be suicidal if the rivals list on your levels put u in say 1-50 allies rival brackets. U will be murdered by the 50 ally guy. Every levels have different sets of brackets depending on how mny plyrs are available on tht levels. So remove say like 10-20 allies n refresh ur rivals list. See if it has changed, if nt go down again untill u reach as low as u want but with the highest ally counts in tht rivals list.

The higher bracket tht JMC n othr high levels plyrs r in grouped all plyrs with as low as 1 ally n as high as 500 allies. This is because there is not enough plyrs in tht bracket. I believe is in the lvl 95+ now. Dont worry bout it tho since by the time u reached here it will hv increase.

Oh n to digital.. "one of buddy.. (Forgot his name)"... U forgot me sifu? Ur one n only apprentice?

Mcdoc
03-27-2012, 01:54 AM
I guess to me - Denisty is kinda like hourly income - doesn't really matter to me. I just play the game for fun and don't get too caught up in comparing my stats to your stats whether it be win/losses - income - density. The only comparison that really matters is the end of the battle who is the winner.

Now Girth is a different story :) LoL

Aidan
03-27-2012, 02:14 AM
Now Girth is a different story :) LoL

R we still talking bout attck/def stat here? Or r we talking bout ur "package".. LOL

digitalwalker
03-27-2012, 02:37 AM
Wa ha, just got up:)

@Macdoc, Well, thx JMC has helped answer the questions, and has given brilliant ones.

@public, just to mention a bit of history. Back to about 4 month ago, we were all kind of playing low ally thing, and not many people were fully allied. Then there was a crazy weekend, the ravil list suddenly changed in the way that high number of ally players could see low number ally players, and the result was obvious, it was the day I suffered my fist heavy lost 700k(big number in that time), this happend to a lot of players. Then people start to fully allied, even when the ravil list back to normal, people still wondered and was afraid to go low allied, because nobody knows which weekend was going to be crazy again:)

@Aidan, oh,man, I m so sorry,[ i actual knew its u when I posting, but I could 100% sure to spell ur name correctly without check, so I just put "for ur name", anyway] I won't do that again:)

Agent Orange
03-27-2012, 04:40 AM
To add on JMC,

U need to experiment a lil bit with your rivals list. Dont just simply cut down to 4 allies as tht might be suicidal if the rivals list on your levels put u in say 1-50 allies rival brackets. U will be murdered by the 50 ally guy. Every levels have different sets of brackets depending on how mny plyrs are available on tht levels. So remove say like 10-20 allies n refresh ur rivals list. See if it has changed, if nt go down again untill u reach as low as u want but with the highest ally counts in tht rivals list.

The higher bracket tht JMC n othr high levels plyrs r in grouped all plyrs with as low as 1 ally n as high as 500 allies. This is because there is not enough plyrs in tht bracket. I believe is in the lvl 95+ now. Dont worry bout it tho since by the time u reached here it will hv increase.

Oh n to digital.. "one of buddy.. (Forgot his name)"... U forgot me sifu? Ur one n only apprentice?

Things seem to be changing a bit above L90 although I haven't got back up to 500 allies yet to see what is going on in the very top tier. But below about 350 allies people seem to be grouped in the 1 - 350 allies as I don't see anyone higher yet. As I have been adding back allies my list has been changing. At first I only saw lower ally count players but that keeps bumping up as I add. But on the first day I was getting attacked by slighter stronger players with higher ally counts so it is important to see where you fit in in terms of your rivals list. As I added more allies I was able to move ahead of those who had hit me and now I'm doing the raiding and attacking so again it's rather important to intel a players inventory just in case they suddenly add a lot of allies and come after you since you are now on their 'speed dial'. I see a couple of players with strangely low ally counts yet with huge bases and quite the stockpile of units that are not being added to their stats. These folks might have a lot of pending allies and one day they might just add them all (if the ally bug doesn't pop up) and take revenge.

I didn't give density a lot of thought originally but after loosing all my allies due to a bug I now see the real importance of it and have been working to address this in my setup and my brothers.

Bronson
03-27-2012, 07:01 AM
Great thread guys and this is something I have been experimenting with over the last few weeks. I dropped my allies from max gradually down by 10 then restarting the game and checking out the strongest allied rivals so I know whether I'm in the top % of players there with my "density".

As you can see from my sig that I have now found the sweet spot for me and besides heavy gold spenders I have not lost a battle for a few weeks now and bought an oil rig after having 3m over my vault.

I have also worked out that to add to my overall A/D I need to buy units over 6 attack or 10 defence

I am going to happily camp here for a while to build economy and strengthen the army before moving up slowly

commandNconquer
03-27-2012, 09:11 AM
i said i would note down my results, and i can say i am quite excited with them

dropping from 117 to 33 allies

i've done around 60-70 fight so far and i've lost ZERO units. i do know 60-70 fights isn't that much but usually with my 117 allies i would loose 2-4 meat shield per fight.

Maverick50727
03-27-2012, 03:20 PM
i said i would note down my results, and i can say i am quite excited with them

dropping from 117 to 33 allies

I've done around 60-70 fight so far and i've lost ZERO units. i do know 60-70 fights isn't that much but usually with my 117 allies i would loose 2-4 meat shield per fight.
Seems to vary with level and unit makeup. I was down at 50 allies and have slowly bumped the back to 200 at L96. I have lose 1 unit in about 100-150 attacks. Then it has been a hornet or strong loot item thus far. I think the events may drop it too