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Skillzrock2
06-27-2012, 07:02 PM
There should be a trade system implemented where you can trade/sell items/units to other players. Then you would be able to sell/trade unused units or items that are not for your class to other people so you can get things you can use. For example: My highest hero weapon that I can use is the Darklord Spear (23/12) but I have 2 weapons that are much better, Beheading Cleavers (30/20) and Ruiner of Evil (25/13). If there was a way for me to trade with other players, I might be able to trade the cleavers to a Rogue for a good Warrior weapon that has similar stats so I can actually use my good loot. Funzio could also make a new currency that could be bought with Gems or Gold that would be used to trade with other players. When you were done trading, you could exchange that currency for Gold or Gems, whichever one you used to buy the new currency, at a slightly lower rate than you bought it for so Funzio would make a little profit and to discourage you from constantly exchanging it back and forth.

Let me know if you have any other suggestions and I can make edits to this idea and give you credit for your ideas if you would like me to.

Thanks,
Will

Freekizh
06-27-2012, 08:28 PM
I don't think this is as good an idea as a RM auction system. Funzio can only allow trading if it gains from trading, since trading allows other players to profit or arbitrage, and Funzio to lose potential revenue as a result of players undercutting the store price, I.e., there is now a real market price instead of a one seller price.

Further players can sell to other players for a minimal price, so reduce cost of commission charged by funzio and undermine the revenue model. E.g., transfer real value via 3rd party means like PayPal ...which may violate iTunes contract..making it even more complicated. Also, they must track RM payments for compliance and money laundering purposes = pita.

The_Legend_Shall_Live_On
06-27-2012, 08:51 PM
But you still should be able to sell unwanted loot, or "dismiss" units for a small fraction of a fraction of the price you bought them. :)

MSH
06-27-2012, 08:55 PM
Well, for one, if we could sell buildings back to Funzio (for gold and at a discount, if I am not mistaken), then, I guess It would not be that difficult for them to arrange for gold sale for obsolete/unneeded gold priced/purchased units, weapons and armor, as step number one.

As to the exchanges in various forms - they were discussed in this forum before. Provided that Funzio is not likmely to allow anything in exchange for gems for obvious reasons, some sort of barter might be preferable (and possibly doable :)) with funzio charging some set amount of gold per transaction, as a commission...

Freekizh
06-27-2012, 09:21 PM
The post is about sales or trades between players, not liquidation as I read it.

MSH
06-27-2012, 09:40 PM
The post is about sales or trades between players, not liquidation as I read it.

Liquidation is a transaction, as well, and could be a really easy stepping stone towards P2P exchange :)
Barter IS a trade between players and it probably is the easiest one to control/conduct without generating all those pesky "currency" issues you mentioned...

Freekizh
06-27-2012, 09:50 PM
Liquidation is a transaction, as well, and could be a really easy stepping stone towards P2P exchange :)
Barter IS a trade between players and it probably is the easiest one to control/conduct without generating all those pesky "currency" issues you mentioned...

Liquidation is a completely different concept to P2P because the only buyer is funzio and so they still dictate the price and only they can arb the spread.

Further, the issue is not about implementation, but whether it is in the commercial interests of funzio to do so. I guess you completely missed the point.

MSH
06-27-2012, 10:07 PM
Liquidation is a completely different concept to P2P because the only buyer is funzio and so they still dictate the price and only they can arb the spread.

Further, the issue is not about implementation, but whether it is in the commercial interests of funzio to do so. I guess you completely missed the point.

The thread started precisely with a trade system IMPLEMENTATION idea and the only realistically useful point to discuss it, is to suggest various IMPLEMENTATION OPTIONS that might provide win win solutions
to everyone concerned including
Funzio, rather than dispensing uninvited personal criticisms, which frankly only harm the discourse

Populouspapa
06-27-2012, 10:16 PM
Nonono no more bugs.. Features == bugs

Freekizh
06-27-2012, 10:19 PM
The thread started precisely with a trade system IMPLEMENTATION idea and the only realistically useful point to discuss it, is to suggest various IMPLEMENTATION OPTIONS that might provide win win solutions
to everyone concerned including
Funzio, rather than dispensing uninvited personal criticisms, which frankly only harm the discourse

Ok ..while u beat around the bush and take it personally..I am describing how Funzio will look at this idea or suggestion, in which other games makers have already implemented for the above reasons, and describing the problems with such an idea. I presumed that the technical implementation of such an idea, while difficult, is not insurmountable, and that what drives the implementation is not the technical issues but the commercial reasons.

MSH
06-27-2012, 11:07 PM
Ok ..while u beat around the bush and take it personally..I am describing how Funzio will look at this idea or suggestion, in which other games makers have already implemented for the above reasons, and describing the problems with such an idea. I presumed that the technical implementation of such an idea, while difficult, is not insurmountable, and that what drives the implementation is not the technical issues but the commercial reasons.

Of course, the main concern here is commercial. Precisely because of that an idea of controlled barter was suggested. BTW, in a real life I used to design and implement such systems well before some game developers were even born on scales far exceeding cumulative value of all those little games we all enjoy playing here.

I don’t claim that it is the only solution, or the best one here, just the one I am familiar with. That’s the beauty of this forum that different people use their diverse experiences to offer/discuss CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS. I like an idea of exchange very much and would love to read/discuss constructive opinions on the subject, even on a purely theoretical basis. Practical decision/Implementation is a Funzio prerogative when, as you said they see compelling commercial reasons to do so. Yet suggesting/discussing such reasons is OUR prerogative and is fun, as long as discourse is constructive IMO

Freekizh
06-28-2012, 12:10 AM
Of course, the main concern here is commercial. Precisely because of that an idea of controlled barter was suggested. BTW, in a real life I used to design and implement such systems well before some game developers were even born on scales far exceeding cumulative value of all those little games we all enjoy playing here.

I don’t claim that it is the only solution, or the best one here, just the one I am familiar with. That’s the beauty of this forum that different people use their diverse experiences to offer/discuss CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS. I like an idea of exchange very much and would love to read/discuss constructive opinions on the subject, even on a purely theoretical basis. Practical decision/Implementation is a Funzio prerogative when, as you said they see compelling commercial reasons to do so. Yet suggesting/discussing such reasons is OUR prerogative and is fun, as long as discourse is constructive IMO

Ok looks like u r one of those dudes that like to trumpet their own horn and beat around the bush.

No one gives a crap about your background just your precise and to the point discourse and contribution. And your posts r way too long and u really ramble on dude.

MSH
06-28-2012, 01:04 AM
Ok looks like u r one of those dudes that like to trumpet their own horn and beat around the bush.

No one gives a crap about your background just your precise and to the point discourse and contribution. And your posts r way too long and u really ramble on dude.

Look, if you don t like my posts that's your right, of course. Just please try to be civil about it - this is a public place, after all. If you don't understand something and need a clearification - just ask and I would be happy to explain. I do think that I am entitled to my postings/ opinions, however rambling :) and would continue to post them whether you
Ike them, or not...I really think that most your posts are seriously below par, but try REALLY HARD not to show that too impolitely though :)Please have your fun - I most certainly would continue having mine :)

Freekizh
06-28-2012, 01:10 AM
Look, if you don t like my posts that's your right, of course. Just please try to be civil about it - this is a public place, after all. If you don't understand something and need a clearification - just ask and I would be happy to explain. I do think that I am entitled to my postings/ opinions, however rambling :) and would continue to post them whether you
Ike them, or not...I really think that most your posts are seriously below par, but try REALLY HARD not to show that too impolitely though :)Please have your fun - I most certainly would continue having mine :)

Yeah I don't understand why u ramble on endlessly .. Can u clarify?

MSH
06-28-2012, 01:18 AM
Yeah I don't understand why u ramble on endlessly .. Can u clarify?
That's easy - we have different attention spans - what you consider "endless" is just a a split second for me ;)
Or, possibly the time moves differently in our respective universes :)

P4TR1C14N
06-28-2012, 05:00 AM
Lovely discussion. Keep on going guys.

I don't want to be smart here, but there seems to me one crucial guideline that will be followed by a company as Funzio being: Does it give me more revenue without a risk factor that it might turn out in the negative way... yes? Let's think about it. Otherwise... bye bye idea.

Freekizh
06-28-2012, 05:38 AM
Lovely discussion. Keep on going guys.

I don't want to be smart here, but there seems to me one crucial guideline that will be followed by a company as Funzio being: Does it give me more revenue without a risk factor that it might turn out in the negative way... yes? Let's think about it. Otherwise... bye bye idea.

That may be true, but a model which delivers better long term profit should always be chosen. So let's look at the options a game company can choose:

1) subscription or upfront fixed price (classic PC or console model)
2) free + one seller (funzio model)
3) RM auction + tax (diablo model)
4) bilateral trading

Now it's very clear that 2, 3 and 4 cannot co-exist since one is fixed price and the others is market price. So to introduce any form of trading is to destroy the current funzio single seller model. The reason why a public auction must take place is to ensure that a fair mkt price is posted in order to determine Funzios fair share of profits. Otherwise buyers and sellers will rigg the game to minimize transaction costs.

Fair to say no one is 100% sure which one is "better" and in what way.

Good ol' Nick
06-28-2012, 07:43 AM
As much as I would love to be able to merchant my way to superior stats and all the other frills that come with being rich, I have to agree with Freekizh. He is 100% correct. Hey Freekizh, I've been meaning to earn a minor in economics... can you continue playing whack-a-mole with people's poor arguments?