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Spydrax
03-18-2013, 07:36 PM
Greetings to all!
My first post, so I hope this wasn't discussed somewhere else and you find this worthy! I did look around...

It seems to me that the mighty dragons have submitted to the LTQ units as supreme force of KA. Once upon a time, a player made a BD10 run to gain this elusive fire breathing beast, raising the kingdoms power stats quickly! Now, with so many LTQ units having stats that surpass the dragons, usually, within the first couple of victories, if not the first, why would someone still go after a BD10 and not just power up on the LTQ's as they come?

So here's the question:

Has the dragon been relegated to a back-up to the LTQ units in your opinion and if so, do you still see it being strategically wise to go for the BD10 upgrade when the LTQ's are so much more helpful? Wouldn't it be wiser to push the $ and effort towards doing well in the quest? This is asked with the understanding that you need established good stats to do well in the quest in the first place, but weighing your choices, which is the better strategy now?

Chazz CC
03-18-2013, 07:50 PM
Doing LTQ's is the obvious choice, but dragons are still a must in my opinion. It will still take awhile for the average player to get 1500 better units than dragons.

asdfg12345
03-18-2013, 08:10 PM
The LTQ is basically a surely way for gold players to surpass free players easily. Before, a free player who plays right can beat alot of the gold players besides the biggest spenders. Now anyone who spends some money on LTQ will be way stronger than a free player.

Props to gree for coming up with this.

Tben64
03-19-2013, 05:45 AM
As a free player who camped in the mid 90s trying to build up the stats to do a BD10 run before hitting level 100 ,the recent introduction of Guilds (with resultant non-stop attacking and raiding)have made me completely reassess the situation.I was aiming to build a dragon army but am now concentrating on LTQs ,my stats have risen over 30% from the last two LTQs and I am giving up on BD10 for the present.

Q Raider
03-19-2013, 06:19 AM
Approaching 200k as a free player on two accounts, not bothering with the dragons as you are correct, the rate of the LTQ's pretty much makes the effort of getting to a BD10 pointless.

Coog
03-19-2013, 06:44 AM
Then there's the question wether the LTQ:s will remain in this format when the guild wars begins. I don't play MW or CC but someone who does maybe could shed some light on this.

Q Raider
03-19-2013, 07:13 AM
The events continued Coog, just the stats have been significantly inflated.

A rare drop in the latest boss event is about the same strength as the early top prize awards for the crate events or a 500 gold purchase of a year ago.

The o ly change in MW was they stopped the PVP events, presumably as they weren't brining in enough revenue as compared to other event types.

Bazi
03-19-2013, 08:45 AM
Well, even with all the high-stat LTQ units, I still have over 1K dragons fighting whenever I battle. So, it would seem it will take another year or two to make them redundant. So having dragons will make a difference since 200K is not really an impressive stat number these days ;)

Gambit12
03-19-2013, 02:24 PM
Approaching 200k as a free player on two accounts, not bothering with the dragons as you are correct, the rate of the LTQ's pretty much makes the effort of getting to a BD10 pointless.


But don't lose hope yet for BD 10. Who knows Gree might bump or boost the Dragons stats in the future again. Like around 1000A/1000D or more...

Intan jabrut
03-19-2013, 09:52 PM
Approaching 200k as a free player on two accounts, not bothering with the dragons as you are correct, the rate of the LTQ's pretty much makes the effort of getting to a BD10 pointless.

Yes I agree with you. I'm L92 130K A/D and I have BD8. I don't think I need BD10 since LTQ's units are stronger than dragons...

GreenGuru
03-19-2013, 11:07 PM
Probably the last chance for non-campers to have a relatively easy road to BD10.

Gree might modify the battle list in the same it was changed in MW which prevents players from slipping under the radar with a low ally count.

And who knows. A new gold purchasable unit stronger than a dragon might be added some time in the future that requires BD10.

To do that I feel it would require either the addition of tier 3 unit buildings or the upgrading of unit buildings past 10. Something stronger than dragons available for purchase I'm sure they'd want people to work for it like for the dragons, not just make it available at BD10

Q Raider
03-20-2013, 12:27 AM
Well, even with all the high-stat LTQ units, I still have over 1K dragons fighting whenever I battle. So, it would seem it will take another year or two to make them redundant. So having dragons will make a difference since 200K is not really an impressive stat number these days ;)

Didn't mention either a level or number of allies though did I :-)

procsyzarc
03-20-2013, 02:27 AM
I spent 6 months camping and getting BD10 at which point attack was about 60k. Two weeks of doing LTQ's my attack is now 250.......so yes they are worthless better putting the gold towards armour and weapons

jonny0284
03-20-2013, 04:54 AM
so yes they are worthless better putting the gold towards armour and weapons

Sure. They're worthless.

Bring your indestructibles. I'll bring mine.

Bring your High Priests and Hydras. I'll bring my Dragons.

Guess who's walking away?

Tben64
03-20-2013, 05:41 AM
Probably the last chance for non-campers to have a relatively easy road to BD10..

I think most people on BD 9 have now realised it's already too late!

DW.Trinity
03-20-2013, 06:35 AM
Sure. They're worthless.Bring your indestructibles. I'll bring mine.Bring your High Priests and Hydras. I'll bring my Dragons.Guess who's walking away?LOL, well said Jonny! Dragons helped me build my stats more quickly than any other bought unit or equipment. These increases enabled better performance in quests and Boss events. Both goals are not mutually exclusive. That said, BD10 is trickier to achieve these days. I say, enjoy the LTDs while keeping your eyes open for an opportunity for your next BD UG.

Pophai
03-20-2013, 09:06 AM
I´m glad I already have my BD10 and I think dragons are still valuable, as it takes a lot of quests to get 1500 units out of it.
But I would like to see a stronger unit purchasable for gold, e.g. a ´black dragon` with double stats than normal, or something like that

itsaklayton
03-20-2013, 09:11 AM
I´m glad I already have my BD10 and I think dragons are still valuable, as it takes a lot of quests to get 1500 units out of it. But I would like to see a stronger unit purchasable for gold, e.g. a ´black dragon` with double stats than normal, or something like thatI second it.

marebear
03-20-2013, 09:41 AM
I think if you are going for bd 10 this is the best time to do it. Now that you can only hit someone 10? times before they are too weak, you will lose a lot less money during an attack AND ltqs usually drop great money after each step so it would be faster collecting the money. ~ my 2 cents

JoKeRjr
03-20-2013, 08:13 PM
Certainly one of the downsides to relying on LTQ units is the leveling up it takes to get them. Up 10 levels in the last 18 days, and even with all the indestructibles gained, I am still fielding a lot of High Priests when attacked.

Shinazueli
03-20-2013, 09:40 PM
Honestly, this is the death knell for campers above level 30 or so. I'm in the high 60s and have been camping there for a while and it's no longer possible to go overvault. Not with every Tom, Richard, and Harry and their mom and their dog with >100k stats from the LTQs they've done in the last couple of months. I've been camping for about 6 months, and I'm reconsidering my strategy when someone who has less than 2k IPH and barely any unit buildings can attack me. I've spoken before on the benefits of camping, and the fact that there is no incentive to level. These long accepted tenets of camping are simply no longer true in this brave new world. The boss event rewards are jokes compared to the LTQs, and the dragons that everyone has been camping to purchase are also not very useful compared to freely obtainable 1k stat units. Gree has finally managed to incentivize levelling to the point where camping may not be a viable option for much longer, as you'll simply be passing on units for no reason. Without the absolute necessity of dragons to survive, IPH building may become archaic as well. But, the catch will always be: the LTQs are also available to the whales, and 10 levels in one LTQ will push you that much closer to getting owned by someone with more money than sense. I'm kind of demoralized by these changes to the game, but I guess I'll have to adapt to actually using that blue bar on a regular basis. Change sucks, but that's life. The only reason to camp (for those still under level 30) is that if you are absolutely positively sure that you will never ever ever level up, which is kind of boring. I always subscribed to the rule that you camped so that you would be more competitive at higher levels than someone who just blazed their way up. As it stands, the person who blazed their way up is actually more competitive.

One thing that I hope the developers of this game will come to realize: camping was the only way for a free player to even hope to compete. Now that it's not really an option, I'd expect your player base to become more and more dissatisfied, and your gem players will have nobody to pick on. This will not be good for the game as a whole. I realize you wanted to encourage levelling, but this is not the way. The reason we were avoiding levelling was to put off the day when we looked around and realized that we couldn't compete. That day is now fast approaching, and this game literally revolves around having a lot of players. Do the math.

As a method for solving the problem of players not levelling, I recommend fixing the root cause: gem purchase gives entirely too much of an advantage. This, combined with the fact that they are also too expensive for their value, makes it into just another class warfare problem. If you dropped the stats on the gem purchases, while simultaneously reducing the price, I think you'd find that you'd make more money, and the playerbase as a whole would be much happier.

Rastlin
03-20-2013, 10:42 PM
I think if you are going for bd 10 this is the best time to do it. Now that you can only hit someone 10? times before they are too weak, ~ my 2 cents
The reverse of this is you can't loot people of their gold as easy... so really it takes longer to build up that gold, and you are over vault for a longer time.. I'd take the 20 hits back. ;-)

The Big Weezy
03-20-2013, 10:51 PM
Honestly, this is the death knell for campers above level 30 or so... gem purchase gives entirely too much of an advantage.

Rumor has it that Gree is set to punch their profits by 40% from gem-spenders skyward with the advent of KA guild wars. I'd say there's no end in sight to this fundraising strategy on their part.

Quick math: The top 10 CC factions spent $1000usd per member to get that ranking in this past weekend's pvp battles. That's $500k (real dollars) weekend profit from only 600 players in one game.

Shinazueli
03-20-2013, 11:32 PM
Camping is still the best decision for a free player.

Campers may choose to stop camping and participate in LTQs. Their stats may rise but they will move into more dangerous territory with each LTQ they progress through. They get relatively weaker each time they level and will be more exposed to strong hitters.

These LTQs are really designed for gem spenders.

As I said, below level 30, that's a fair strategy, as most of the LTQs aren't available down there. Up here in the 60s, it's not working any more. I'm seeing (fairly regularly) 100k+ people on my battle list, and invariable they have no IPH to speak of and just about every LTQ unit released in their inventory. They don't have to finish the LTQs, it's enough to make up the difference in stats without them.

Shinazueli
03-21-2013, 01:25 PM
Not really, if you add up the stats til level 40 of the current LTQ (which was the level I obtained completely free this morning, no gems, balanced skill point spec) you get about 80% of the stats (and like 60% of the xp, the last five are HARD) as someone who completed it. And that's a LOT of stats.

Shinazueli
03-21-2013, 05:41 PM
My point isn't that the gain is worth the xp. My point is that last week or so, after several (7) months of camping in the 60s, I started seeing people pop up on my battle list near my stats. That hadn't happened, ever. I lost over two million gold in a week, and every time I'd look at my attacker, it was always someone who'd almost completed every LTQ until now. So LTQs gave them enough stats to beat a loooooong term camper. There's literally nothing money can buy me in my army that will allow me to compete with 20k + stat increase LTQs. Other than participating in them myself. Camping above the level at which LTQs become available is dead.

asdfg12345
03-21-2013, 10:57 PM
My point isn't that the gain is worth the xp. My point is that last week or so, after several (7) months of camping in the 60s, I started seeing people pop up on my battle list near my stats. That hadn't happened, ever. I lost over two million gold in a week, and every time I'd look at my attacker, it was always someone who'd almost completed every LTQ until now. So LTQs gave them enough stats to beat a loooooong term camper. There's literally nothing money can buy me in my army that will allow me to compete with 20k + stat increase LTQs. Other than participating in them myself. Camping above the level at which LTQs become available is dead.

Ya camping is dead and so is playing the game as a free player. If you dont blow few hundred bucks on the LTQ, you are guaranteed to get ****d and pillaged by players who started a month ago.

Shinazueli
03-22-2013, 12:05 AM
Yeah if I'd foreseen this I'd have camped at thirty. That's the only safe place for campers now.

Dracos
03-22-2013, 12:08 AM
if you don't increase your stats whats the use of even playing?
I don''t mean it in a derogatory way, can you please explain to me what you get out of the game?

Shinazueli
03-22-2013, 12:19 AM
if you don't increase your stats whats the use of even playing?
I don''t mean it in a derogatory way, can you please explain to me what you get out of the game?

I won't take it badly then. When I started playing this game (upon release) I messed up very badly and was over level 100 before I knew it. I used my wife's phone to delete my account and start over, semi camping, only levelling for boss events. I was able to build a Very Strong Economy that way. I was putting off BD10, because I had sugarplum pipe dreams of being able to build level 10 manors. I made it to level 6 three weeks ago. I was saving for level 7s two weeks ago when the wave of players who started playing 3-4 months ago and have just about completed every LTQ released so far (and almost no other units to speak of) started showing up on my radar. Even a weeks worth of warning that I was about to get rick rolled would have allowed me to easily get bd10, I had millions for months overvault. Overnight, the game has changed. I can't go 3 gold overvault now without some idiot who has absolutely no concept of strategy comes and tries to take some of my cheese. To say I'm a little bitter about the whole switcheroo they've pulled is an understatement. If I'd realized I would have turned out being morons' ATMs, I would have quit, but now I've invested literally a year of my life into this little box of pixels and I don't want to let it to so ignonimously.

As far as your original question : what I USED to get out of this game was the knowledge that unless someone was willing and able to spend fairly large sums of money, I could play my little kingdom building free from the fear of other players. Even the gem players who would occasionally hit me would level past me very quickly. Now, idiots and douches that can drain their blue bar a few times a day can steal what I've spent a year building; and there's no respite from the onslaught of idiocy because there's an endless wave of the lemmings on their way from moronville en route to the shark pool.

I think that's enough of an explanation, it's certainly more than the developer of this game has ever bothered to spend 15 minutes of their time to type out.

Bazi
03-22-2013, 06:54 AM
It's clear by the way the game is evolving that Gree does not see KA as a camping game, but a battle game where PvE and PvP are the objectives.

For campers, if your enjoyment is in building up a high income kingdom/city in peace, there are other games/apps that are designed to do that.

Shinazueli
03-22-2013, 11:04 AM
It's clear by the way the game is evolving that Gree does not see KA as a camping game, but a battle game where PvE and PvP are the objectives.

For campers, if your enjoyment is in building up a high income kingdom/city in peace, there are other games/apps that are designed to do that.

I didn't say peace, the point was that I could be stronger than idiots who didn't know how to play. That was the whole source of enjoyment. And there's a whole host of games that a nine year old that can click attack and doesn't know how to count can play, for that matter.

asdfg12345
03-22-2013, 05:20 PM
I agree.

These LTQs have dumbed down the game even more.ya this game is literally just stupid now. Basically it comes down to people use gem to get units with super inflated stats and stops there. I mean seriously. How the hell did they decide to jump from elite units that had 400-500 stats to units with 10k stats.

At the rate it is going, everyone will have gem army by end of august.

darknite
03-22-2013, 07:05 PM
im sure that you completed many ltqs shinazueli , so did you reach to a point that dragons are not raising your stats anymore?

Shinazueli
03-22-2013, 07:09 PM
im sure that you completed many ltqs shinazueli , so did you reach to a point that dragons are not raising your stats anymore?

I ignored all the LTQs before this one. I don't have a choice. I wish I had dragons, it's hydras for me until I dish out money to Gree. I posted about it a couple pages ago.

darknite
03-22-2013, 08:25 PM
just read it :rolleyes: , " gem purchase gives entirely too much of an advantage." i agree with you but they wont drop gem prices. if they do as you said many more players may start buying gems and bring more profit(maybe not) but on the other hand whales wont be happy because of enlarging competitive environment and their past purchases. i used to play mw and quit right after last battle, in the last battle while my top 250 faction had 75k points after first day , p.u.n. "won last 2 or 3 battles" had 20 mil points,ferr's emporers had over 10-15 mil points . gree doesnt seem concerned about making some bucks.

SuperTP
03-22-2013, 08:48 PM
Perhaps i missed it, and if i did i apologize. But, being that dragons are working their way towards "obsolete" and the obvious weak point in the game, imo, are the honor units (or lack thereof) perhaps gree is gearing up to introducing some new ones along with some new gold purchaseable units? They already have done so in CC/MW and its made a considerable difference. I, for one, would very much like to see it done here as well.

Spydrax
04-02-2013, 03:25 PM
Seems to me that GREE is or will be working on changes to the units base as they did months ago when they changed all the values.

If GREE wants to keep the dragon as their top creature, they have to create a new unit, such as a 'black', 'red', 'white' dragon as noted earlier, or update it's values. I wouldn't opt for the values alone as it would put to much of a gap between it and the next best gold purchasable unit. I can see them creating several new dragons and combine that with additional levels to the unit buildings and then raise the vault to offset this $ push to keep in balance with what we have now. It's about 4.5/1 cost of BD10 v. vault?

Right now, I see many players with lowest unit being a dragon, but it's only the base, the LTQ units are the power. This most recent LTQ prior to the war, to me, was unrealistic. GREE went straight for the money. If that were to remain the norm, then dragons are back in business, less the LTQ units that have been distributed to date. Look at them like a bonus of sorts... Not the norm.

DoC Deranged
04-25-2013, 10:06 PM
Greetings to all!
My first post, so I hope this wasn't discussed somewhere else and you find this worthy! I did look around...

It seems to me that the mighty dragons have submitted to the LTQ units as supreme force of KA. Once upon a time, a player made a BD10 run to gain this elusive fire breathing beast, raising the kingdoms power stats quickly! Now, with so many LTQ units having stats that surpass the dragons, usually, within the first couple of victories, if not the first, why would someone still go after a BD10 and not just power up on the LTQ's as they come?

So here's the question:

Has the dragon been relegated to a back-up to the LTQ units in your opinion and if so, do you still see it being strategically wise to go for the BD10 upgrade when the LTQ's are so much more helpful? Wouldn't it be wiser to push the $ and effort towards doing well in the quest? This is asked with the understanding that you need established good stats to do well in the quest in the first place, but weighing your choices, which is the better strategy now?

Is by afar the gets option.

Finsfan
04-26-2013, 09:56 AM
I think the better question is LTQ versus guilt war?

I have to admit that I spent $200 on the last war for my guild to get a top 75 place. Then I spent 500 gems to complete the last quest and my stats were increased by over 300% compared to the rewards from the war. I don't even think if you got first second or third it is worth the money compared to the value of the quests. My opinion of course. Happy Friday!

Johan -
04-26-2013, 01:38 PM
I agree, guild war or LTQ ? For sure LTQ, I did the last Guild war and spend many thousands Gems, finally we came again in the TOP75 ! but the reward...well...for sure not worth the many GEMS!! Did the LTQ last week and with minimal gems, received again 30K increase of my stats, while the guild war gave me 5K increase only...
Now with the new honor units and gold units, my dragons are not really much worth anymore...My LTQ units with the new higher stat gold units and honor units probably will make my Dragons useless after a month of 2!
Vault increase to above the 1 mill?????? Think the interesting part of the game is destroyed!!! there will not be many overvault rivals, so the only option is raiding to find gold... and attacking the rivals to find stones...;)

Plux
04-27-2013, 11:19 AM
Dragons aren't mighty at all, neither are the new expensive Beast units.
Look below, I won't interrupt you too soon ;-)

Eddard KFF
04-27-2013, 12:19 PM
Petyr Baelish said "Gold wins wars, not soldiers". Otherwise, this wouldn't be a "free to play, pay to win" kind of game.