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The Wise One
04-26-2013, 04:47 PM
Hi Knights,

I'm definitely seeing the frustration and negative sentiment on the odds etc. from the chest themselves. I'll be sharing the information with the team, so that they're well aware of the current feedback from the community on this.

That being said, there's a probability tied into getting the legendary armors and yes, it's not easily found etc. (or else it wouldn't be a legendary) but, it's the luck of the draw for this one. Just because no one in the forums have yet to say anything about acquiring the new legendary doesn't mean they don't exist or no one has found it.

I also would like to bring up an issue that i'm seeing from the recent post etc. and that would be profanity, asking players to go on strike, quitting, etc. I'm all for speaking your mind and positive criticism is more than welcomed, but there's a line that we have to draw on what's being said out of frustration. Anything along those lines will result in an edited post, warning, and/or ban if it continues.

As promised since day 1 from my arrival to these forums, i'll try to communicate and make sure that the development team sees and understands the communities opinions and point of views. In addition, we'll try to make the communication as 2 sided and main streamed as possible. Thank you for everyone's cooperation and understanding of this matter.

Harvey Guo
04-26-2013, 05:12 PM
Alright, I now try to speak with you rationally.

Firstly, I would say that this thread posted by you is not a wise choice, especially your attitude of current discussion. You should know that people have rights to speak freely, and you have no right to ban forum members with ridiculous reason.

I think you should really consider the reason why more and more people become complaining and panic. If you making good changes, take care for customers' benefit and feelings, why should they against you?

And for your post, I would say you cannot assume that there is someone get the armor, just they have not post their information on the forum. Yes, there maybe is, but we can only speak with proof.

No matter how you hate the evidence, I collect the data from three big gem spenders, calculate and speak the truth.

For Legendary armor, the probability is quite low, even you double, triple or even ten time the results, the probability is still quite low. 9,200 gems for 1 armor. You cannot even deny this fact by yourself. I would say that armor is quite expensive, should be gained by opening Diamond chest.

For Nemesis, after my calculation, and many other players' feedback, the probability is between 1/11 to 1/12, which proved my calculation, and also proved that GREE did nerf the percentage of gaining nemesis.

This is what GREE did wrong, and we must both accept that and make a solution for solving it. Otherwise the gaming environment will become worse and people will quit, you and I both know that.

At last, wiser would always be all ears with others, especially listen from the god --- our customers. Our opinion and feedback not only are your key to survival, but also help you to improve the product and overcome your competitors. You should thanks our efforts and contribution, not force us selective silence.

I do wish K&D will become better and better, otherwise I would not say too much and keep helping forum members.

Please do consider our customers' opinion, thanks:)

zhy
04-26-2013, 05:19 PM
hey wise one im sure some1 got the aegis :P but the chance for that is too low, i know its a 4 stars so chance are lower than other ones, but i remember when the black chest didnt exist yet, gree released 3x chance weekends on starmetals n steampowered, if im not wrong i spent about 300 gems for each one (n at that time there were even less forum members but i can remember some of us shared about their 3x chance experience n we were pretty ok, most of us got em from 100 to 400 gems) , now given the chance should be the same as those 3 are all 4 stars n that the dark chest cost the double most of ppl should be able to get at least 1 aegis if not more with max 800 gems. thats what upsets me, all legendaries but chance are too low for this one

edit : also in order to respect us as customers, if gree changes the probability to get a nemesis armor from black chest, then they should let us know; see im not complaing about ur business model in this case, thats not my affair, if gree thinks its good then just go on, urs the product n ours the money so we will decide to spend some or not if we like or dislike how the game is managed, but the point is changing nemesis chance without letting us know its not fair nor ethical

Catastr0phy
04-26-2013, 05:42 PM
Hi Knights,

I'm definitely seeing the frustration and negative sentiment on the odds etc. from the chest themselves. I'll be sharing the information with the team, so that they're well aware of the current feedback from the community on this.

That being said, there's a probability tied into getting the legendary armors and yes, it's not easily found etc. (or else it wouldn't be a legendary) but, it's the luck of the draw for this one. Just because no one in the forums have yet to say anything about acquiring the new legendary doesn't mean they don't exist or no one has found it.

I also would like to bring up an issue that i'm seeing from the recent post etc. and that would be profanity, asking players to go on strike, quitting, etc. I'm all for speaking your mind and positive criticism is more than welcomed, but there's a line that we have to draw on what's being said out of frustration. Anything along those lines will result in an edited post, warning, and/or ban if it continues.

As promised since day 1 from my arrival to these forums, i'll try to communicate and make sure that the development team sees and understands the communities opinions and point of views. In addition, we'll try to make the communication as 2 sided and main streamed as possible. Thank you for everyone's cooperation and understanding of this matter.

I'll give a bit less flaming comment then Harvey, although hes right, a story has 2 sides. I'll try to combine them.
Yes there is frustration on things. Gree seems to listen a little, for instance the 10 armor slots more, the only 1 knight in the castle area, fixed a bit of the friends list and some new armors got added. On the other hand, since minute 1 of the dark prince chest popping up, people been flaming at it 1 coz it is way more expensive, and 2 that you took out the retry for 4 gems button. and be honest, 0.06% chance on 3x(!) to get the new legendary, super low chances on other even 3 star armors , even the chances to obtain the nemesis is now 1/12 while they cost 20 gems each try now! Thats 1 nemesis each 240 gems!really?!? although Gree is making money on it for now, people will think twice before they spend gems on chance chests. also its frustrating that we got like 300 ideas for this game to make it more balanced, and all you do is making it less balanced then ever. The gem spending increased 300% since the dark prince chests. Ofcourse you won't allow people to talk about strikes etc. on your own forums, but isn't it a bit harsh to treaten us with bans while obviously the community is upset by the recent changes?

I want to thank you though. I realize your just the one in the middle of communication, and we'd do well to not shoot the messenger. Your just trying to help both sides. since the only way to communicate properly with the developer's is trough the messenger, we should not shoot at you personally.

Though I, and with me certainly most people playing K&D, ask you if you could interrupt in the gem-greedy changes from the developers. This because we've reached the point of, as in your words: 'strike, quitting, etc.'.

Sir William
04-26-2013, 05:52 PM
Harvey,

If the history of the world has taught us anything it is that irrationality and emotionally-driven actions/reactions will not accomplish the goals you seek.

While many players feel GREE is becoming a disaster of a company and trying to squeeze out money from everyone, you have to approach a conversation rationally and calmly and have a conversation with others instead of just screaming at people.

I know it's tough and you're passionate, but remember that you're ultimate goal is to better this game and make sure to ask yourself, "Is screaming at the only link I have to the management of the game going to solve anything?"

Marcial1234
04-26-2013, 06:08 PM
The prior posts have all captured the overall feeling toward GREE in the past weeks. Though Williams is right about being emotionally driven, it can't be denied that Harvey got us one thing, our voices to be heard. Now that the developers have heard our voices is when we have to find common ground (if such thing is possible) on making this game better. Improvements have been appreciated, but their companion changes just overshadow them, since a lot of players were really in all the getting the nemesis process and so forth. Inflation on prices, lower probability, and an unbalanced gameplay on reward/fees just irritates people as a worsening effect. And then we protest.

Harvey Guo
04-26-2013, 06:10 PM
Well, I do not think it is screaming. Our players have giving many suggestion before and complain many unfair issues, if GREE really listen our words, we no need to reply become little flame.

Actually, I never buy the gems, so basically not my business. But if I wanna a fair gaming environment, I need to say something.

Don't you even notice why I become flame? Let me tell you.

GREE manipulate the probability, using false advertisement to attract people's attention, making foolish of people, after that they even don't allow people to talk and discuss about this, wtf.

People have the right to speak, we try to speak with them rational before, but seems useless, and they reply our post with inappropriate attitude, what would you expect I return to them? A smile face?
Harvey,

If the history of the world has taught us anything it is that irrationality and emotionally-driven actions/reactions will not accomplish the goals you seek.

While many players feel GREE is becoming a disaster of a company and trying to squeeze out money from everyone, you have to approach a conversation rationally and calmly and have a conversation with others instead of just screaming at people.

I know it's tough and you're passionate, but remember that you're ultimate goal is to better this game and make sure to ask yourself, "Is screaming at the only link I have to the management of the game going to solve anything?"

Catastr0phy
04-26-2013, 06:14 PM
Well, I do not think it is screaming. Our players have giving many suggestion before and complain many unfair issues, if GREE really listen our words, we no need to reply become little flame.

Actually, I never buy the gems, so basically not my business. But if I wanna a fair gaming environment, I need to say something.

Don't you even notice why I become flame? Let me tell you.

GREE manipulate the probability, using false advertisement to attract people's attention, making foolish of people, after that they even don't allow people to talk and discuss about this, wtf.

People have the right to speak, we try to speak with them rational before, but seems useless, and they reply our post with inappropriate attitude, what would you expect I return to them? A smile face?

Quite good explaination, though i would prefer a funny face wich made them laugh?:D

Chen
04-26-2013, 06:25 PM
basically what the wise one saying is, if you guys don't shut your mouth, he's gonna ban you all or edit
your post, Imao,
**** this game

i spent $125 on this game and i regret it, spent it while grinding dark princes awhile ago, which with like a 10% drop rate on gems

Marcial1234
04-26-2013, 06:36 PM
basically what the wise one saying is, if you guys don't shut your mouth, he's gonna ban you all or edit
your post, Imao,
**** this game

i spent $125 on this game and i regret it, spent it while grinding dark princes awhile ago, which with like a 10% drop rate on gems

The one that has the least to do with the game and could care less is showing examples why Wise wants to ban people. Go flame somewhere else~

Catastr0phy
04-26-2013, 07:01 PM
The one that has the least to do with the game and could care less is showing examples why Wise wants to ban people. Go flame somewhere else~

Agreed, if theres other ppl trying to flame like this while were talking serious business with the wise one, plz think before you post and do not interrupt like a little kid. That has no contribution at all to this kind of threads.

HaQoQ
04-26-2013, 07:13 PM
Hi The Wise one,

After reading the reply of other people, I just want to ask a question. In one of the post, it said in previous 3x chance there were reports of people getting 4 stars legendary armor in 400 gems at most. From my own personal experience, I just open 800 gems worth of chest and I didn't attain a single 3 or 4 star item. Can you give explanation why the probability was lowered? Was something wrong with it?

You said that legendary is not easily found, but I paid 79.99 +tax to attempt to get that non-tangible item. Just approximately how much do I need to spend to get it?

Thank you for your future reply and understanding.

Sincerely a new member of this community.

zhy
04-26-2013, 07:31 PM
yeah they were in gold chest, if the chances were the same max 400 gems with gold chest means max 800 gems with black ones, so they lowered it :P

Newbish
04-26-2013, 07:33 PM
Here's the thing that really bugs me if your spending money on a free to play game you should be getting the best of the best to set you apart from the ppl that just play the game and choose not to spend anything. But that's not how it is here the ppl spending $100's of dollars are just getting screwed time and time again by getting absolute garbage from the chests. The ppl sitting back and not buying gems are just laughing. I think if you guys were to award the ppl buying gems with better armour you would probably see a large increase of ppl buying gems. Just smart business after all its these ppl spending the money that keeps this company alive...

Newbish
04-26-2013, 07:35 PM
Posted twice.

Eunuchorn
04-26-2013, 08:25 PM
The devs don't make decisions, they program. They have these bosses & arenas planned weeks in advance, & between the rewards, armors graphics & stat design vs balance, they are busy typing away trying to meet deadlines. Theres a serious lack of oversight (thanks capitalism!) & because Gree inherited the game they are not paying any attention to broken mechanics, just revenue to make their money back. The lead design is probably being told certain things to do, & I can almost guarantee you whoever he is reporting to doesn't have a degree in psychology, much less play any of the Gree games regularly. I made a post a looong time ago with small mechanics changes to full overhauls that would have enormous affect on smoothness of game play & accessibility for new&old players alike w/o changing any balance & exponentially decreasing the amount of tickets they receive (this last statement is less pertinent to K&D, more MW/KA) which brings me to my next point/question:

How many devs are on the K&D team & do they share programming responsibility on other games as well?

All I know is I should have gotten my starmetal dragon & steam when I had the chance :( oh well, maybe they'll move nemesis back to gold chest, it only makes sense, easier to get gold keys through the boss & people will have to save them for each nemesis or pay 10gems for a gold chest, lower the drop rate & remove non+ armors from dark prince, you'll see a gem buying spike for both chests imo.

The Wise One
04-26-2013, 08:51 PM
basically what the wise one saying is, if you guys don't shut your mouth, he's gonna ban you all or edit
your post, Imao,
**** this game

i spent $125 on this game and i regret it, spent it while grinding dark princes awhile ago, which with like a 10% drop rate on gems

Actually, I said that bans, edits, and warnings come from profanity and violations of the RoC for repeat offenders. Not that no one is allowed to express what they think.

Nyx
04-26-2013, 09:02 PM
I just want to start off by saying that even though I don't participate on the forums as much as I used to, I really do appreciate that there is a forum advocate present to listen to player grievances. I hate to admit it but I used to think that CCM was ineffective for the most part yet after he was gone the disconnect between GREE and its playerbase seemed to become even more pronounced. It lead me to think that perhaps I didn't give him enough credit. Anyway, that's just my long-winded way of saying I'm glad The Wise One is here. :)

That said, it isn't surprising to me to see this familiar topic of discussion popping up on the K&D forums. Having played CC, KA, and MQ, it seems to be the GREE trend to offer gameplay that's really fun and rewarding in the first few months after launch, and then slowly but surely the nerf screws begin to turn and it becomes painfully obvious that the ultimate goal is to stimulate gem purchases and often at the expense of player enjoyment.

I'm very much aware of the fact that GREE is a business with the core goal of making money but it pains me to see GREE launch games that seem to have so much potential but that potential is inevitably squelched under the seemingly narrow sighted pursuit of stimulating gem purchases above ALL else.

The Wise One
04-26-2013, 09:03 PM
Alright, I now try to speak with you rationally.

Firstly, I would say that this thread posted by you is not a wise choice, especially your attitude of current discussion. You should know that people have rights to speak freely, and you have no right to ban forum members with ridiculous reason.

I think you should really consider the reason why more and more people become complaining and panic. If you making good changes, take care for customers' benefit and feelings, why should they against you?

And for your post, I would say you cannot assume that there is someone get the armor, just they have not post their information on the forum. Yes, there maybe is, but we can only speak with proof.

No matter how you hate the evidence, I collect the data from three big gem spenders, calculate and speak the truth.

For Legendary armor, the probability is quite low, even you double, triple or even ten time the results, the probability is still quite low. 9,200 gems for 1 armor. You cannot even deny this fact by yourself. I would say that armor is quite expensive, should be gained by opening Diamond chest.

For Nemesis, after my calculation, and many other players' feedback, the probability is between 1/11 to 1/12, which proved my calculation, and also proved that GREE did nerf the percentage of gaining nemesis.

This is what GREE did wrong, and we must both accept that and make a solution for solving it. Otherwise the gaming environment will become worse and people will quit, you and I both know that.

At last, wiser would always be all ears with others, especially listen from the god --- our customers. Our opinion and feedback not only are your key to survival, but also help you to improve the product and overcome your competitors. You should thanks our efforts and contribution, not force us selective silence.

I do wish K&D will become better and better, otherwise I would not say too much and keep helping forum members.

Please do consider our customers' opinion, thanks:)

Harvey, I'd rather make sure that we're in communication rather than having this white elephant be ignored. I never said that people were going to be warned for expressing their thoughts, it's encouraged, but offending material for our younger audience etc. are not something that I'll tolerate on the forums.


At last, wiser would always be all ears with others, especially listen from the god --- our customers. Our opinion and feedback not only are your key to survival, but also help you to improve the product and overcome your competitors. You should thanks our efforts and contribution, not force us selective silence.

I do wish K&D will become better and better, otherwise I would not say too much and keep helping forum members.

I'm definitely in agreement, that's why we're here to monitor and be as active as we can with the communication. I appreciate you being vocal and constantly helping players (that goes for every active member of this community).

busteroaf
04-26-2013, 09:07 PM
This is the problem with a lot of these games. Its the "collect all the high powered _____" (armor in this game, pets in pokemon, or cards in many games... see Rage of Bahamut or any card game really). The name of the game is capitalism. If people didn't buy gems, or gold, or whatever in-game currency there is for the particular game, they either have to flood you with ads, which no one ever likes, just admit it... or they (the company/developer) will go broke. Most app/game developers are in it to make money. Period. Just accept that fact and most of the headaches will go away on the consumer side. The faster they can make it, and the more they make it, the happier. Yes, the community needs to be heard, but the community also needs to realize that again, this is the name of the game: For them to make money while providing the community a game to play that keeps people coming back for more, and wanting to spend more money.

The more in this case? Weekly armor updates, that shiny new armor, or a new boss, or a retro old armor with a new upgrade... You're playing a time sink game. With no "end" and can't be "beat" or "won" unless you define your "win" in some manner. Is your win ranking in the top 10 for each arena tournament? Top 1000? Getting the highest armor and maxing them all out? (Hint... there will always be a new one coming out eventually... there's the time sink and the hook to come back and play more. Its gaming 101.)

And to the people asking how much it costs? Its random. Look up odds/probability and do the math. But also know, there is no set amount of money that will guarantee you ever get any armor out of the chest. You could put $1000 into the game, and only ever get... steam wizards robe. That is just the nature of these games. Yes they raised the price on things, or lowered the odds, whatever. That is the economy coming into play. If everyone has easy access to "legendary" armor, its not legendary anymore. Boss drops. If you always got what you wanted, or "needed" (think MMO boss drops: 3 or 4 items for 10 people in the raid? Not everyone can get what they want. And those 3 or 4 items may come from a 10 item list... more math for you)

Anyone who has played any of the card games (Rage of Bahamut-er here myself) knows that the economy dries up to crap when everyone has access to the best cards. The levels in RoB are normal, high normal, rare, high rare, super rare, super super rare, and legendary. Should the odds of drawing a SSR card be the same as drawing a rare? No, otherwise its not super super rare. But people complained and complained about low level cards (normals and high normals) being in card packs (that people pay for, or win from contests/leveling etc) so now they are rare and up. Now rare cards, since they are the most common in the card packs, are essentially worthless. Now people complain that there aren't enough High Rares, or Super Rares, since High Rares are in the "darn near worthless too" category. But if they gave everyone SR for free, everyone is on the same level again, and then that level of card is worthless too. Do you see where the economy will easily crash? Its a great economics study.

This happens in every game, even Warcraft and other MMO's. Eventually you get to end game, and you either end up running the same instance day after day farming for alts, or you just get bored and quit. Unless they can make 500 more levels and constantly improve with more areas and new armors, its sadly going to go the way of every other game, and nothing they do will be right, everyone complains about how the new players get spoon fed all this new free stuff (to keep them playing) while all the old people had to earn it etc...

Just enjoy the game while you can. And if you spend money on it, realize that you are just fueling the game machine that wants to make money off you. You are the one making the choice to spend money. They are not forcing you to do anything. You made that choice to spend that much.

And in no way is this trying to show disrespect to the company or the game itself. I enjoy the game and have thrown some money of my own to the capitalist machine. But, I also can see where the game is going for just playing for a few weeks casually, and this is how many others view similar games like this. They are a fun escape from each previous game that has hit that "OMG, they are ruining the game/just trying to make money off us/we want more stuff for the game" point.

zhy
04-26-2013, 09:20 PM
I just want to start off by saying that even though I don't participate on the forums as much as I used to, I really do appreciate that there is a forum advocate present to listen to player grievances. I hate to admit it but I used to think that CCM was ineffective for the most part yet after he was gone the disconnect between GREE and its playerbase seemed to become even more pronounced. It lead me to think that perhaps I didn't give him enough credit. Anyway, that's just my long-winded way of saying I'm glad The Wise One is here. :)

That said, it isn't surprising to me to see this familiar topic of discussion popping up on the K&D forums. Having played CC, KA, and MQ, it seems to be the GREE trend to offer gameplay that's really fun and rewarding in the first few months after launch, and then slowly but surely the nerf screws begin to turn and it becomes painfully obvious that the ultimate goal is to stimulate gem purchases and often at the expense of player enjoyment.

I'm very much aware of the fact that GREE is a business with the core goal of making money but it pains me to see GREE launch games that seem to have so much potential but that potential is inevitably squelched under the seemingly narrow sighted pursuit of stimulating gem purchases above ALL else. seems i was writing the same things in another thread at the same time :P i shared my thoughts there about y gree works that way :P

Nyx
04-26-2013, 09:40 PM
seems i was writing the same things in another thread at the same time :P i shared my thoughts there about y gree works that way :P

Ha! I was thinking the same thing when I read your post in the other thread. :D

Eunuchorn
04-26-2013, 11:19 PM
The devs don't make decisions, they program. They have these bosses & arenas planned weeks in advance, & between the rewards, armors graphics & stat design vs balance, they are busy typing away trying to meet deadlines. Theres a serious lack of oversight (thanks capitalism!) & because Gree inherited the game they are not paying any attention to broken mechanics, just revenue to make their money back. The lead design is probably being told certain things to do, & I can almost guarantee you whoever he is reporting to doesn't have a degree in psychology, much less play any of the Gree games regularly. I made a post a looong time ago with small mechanics changes to full overhauls that would have enormous affect on smoothness of game play & accessibility for new&old players alike w/o changing any balance & exponentially decreasing the amount of tickets they receive (this last statement is less pertinent to K&D, more MW/KA) which brings me to my next point/question:

How many devs are on the K&D team & do they share programming responsibility on other games as well?

All I know is I should have gotten my starmetal dragon & steam when I had the chance :( oh well, maybe they'll move nemesis back to gold chest, it only makes sense, easier to get gold keys through the boss & people will have to save them for each nemesis or pay 10gems for a gold chest, lower the drop rate & remove non+ armors from dark prince, you'll see a gem buying spike for both chests imo.

Can I get a quoted response too, Oh Wise One!?!

Catastr0phy
04-27-2013, 12:36 AM
Can I get a quoted response too, Oh Wise One!?!

nonono, we won't!

Lcharlie
04-27-2013, 02:20 AM
Ha! I was thinking the same thing when I read your post in the other thread. :D

Well said guys. I hope the game will balance new game material with the increased online shopping experience. Gree could prolong this business model better with newer content instead of lowering the quality and probability of chests. Consider a new area every month and 5-10 extra relevant levels instead of gimmickie randomized new chest only armors. Currently the end game is rather weak and I am not even sure why people level past 100 unless they are just repetitively farming.

The Wise One
04-27-2013, 12:27 PM
Can I get a quoted response too, Oh Wise One!?!

Quoted response :P

The Knights and Dragons team is solely dedicated to the game itself with no responsibilities for any other title. The chance chest has definitely seen the most feedback and suggestions on the forums and within the community. It's been shared with the team to look over and evaluate. However, as you noted, things are planned and scheduled in advance to keep new content flowing and it wouldn't be an immediate adjustment that can be made. Even something such as adding additional armor slots had to be evaluated to see how it affected the game from a design and balance point of view.

Catastr0phy
04-27-2013, 03:36 PM
Quoted response :P

The Knights and Dragons team is solely dedicated to the game itself with no responsibilities for any other title. The chance chest has definitely seen the most feedback and suggestions on the forums and within the community. It's been shared with the team to look over and evaluate. However, as you noted, things are planned and scheduled in advance to keep new content flowing and it wouldn't be an immediate adjustment that can be made. Even something such as adding additional armor slots had to be evaluated to see how it affected the game from a design and balance point of view.

Thanks for bringing that under the attention of the K&D Team! We just hope K&D will get more balanced for players. If it takes time to get a more balanced game on users request, we should sit out the waiting time.

Sir William
04-27-2013, 05:23 PM
Quoted response :P

The Knights and Dragons team is solely dedicated to the game itself with no responsibilities for any other title. The chance chest has definitely seen the most feedback and suggestions on the forums and within the community. It's been shared with the team to look over and evaluate. However, as you noted, things are planned and scheduled in advance to keep new content flowing and it wouldn't be an immediate adjustment that can be made. Even something such as adding additional armor slots had to be evaluated to see how it affected the game from a design and balance point of view.

Hello sir,

I would just like to say that ive been around the block with a game like this and been in contact with the admins and i can understand and understand and appreciate your position and respect it all the same.

My biggest issue with the game is the number of armors you can have max. I mean honestly 40 is a joke and 50 is laughable at best. If there are truly 100 plus armors total in creation, the max should be 2x total # individually possible. That accounts and accomadates for collectors and those trying to bank up and then fuse.

I think it should be taken into consideration as well as to add a way to purchase missed armors (bosses and nemesis) from a collectors point of view after the fact.

Not to mention the system for summoning bosses is truly broken and gree can't expect anyone to pay 30 gems for only 2 materials if they miss the boss. Add a gold option or lower the gem cost.


When I joined this game, my initial review was that you didn't need to spend much money to do well but in the past 3 weeks that view has done a complete 180.


In summation, don't dismiss the views and frustrations of the forum members because at the end of the day a business can break it up to whales and non-whales, but a business needs both to survive.

zhy
04-27-2013, 05:40 PM
hello wise one :P my issue with KD isnt that gree lowered the chance of nemesis from black chests (obviously if it was higher i would be much happier), indeed its a gree choice n we are free to accept it n keep opening chests or refuse it stopping to throw money in this game. the real problem in my opinion is that we werent aware of this change, n gree did it purposelly in the shadow, thats not fair nor ethical, i cant see any respect for us, its like if u tell some1 to bet choosing between 2 numbers but actually there are more. i would call it robbing :P so if gree changes something plz let us know, so that we can decide if/how to spend our money, if we knew about this change we couldnt complain about the lower chance of nemesis cuz we would have the whole responsability of our action in case we decided to open chest even with the nemesis chance lowered. same for the legendary armor, if its legendary then it should have the same chance of the other 4 stars, if it was lower then gree should have released a new class of armor so that we could be aware of the lower chance. ty

Raistmar
04-28-2013, 02:00 PM
hello wise one :P my issue with KD isnt that gree lowered the chance of nemesis from black chests (obviously if it was higher i would be much happier), indeed its a gree choice n we are free to accept it n keep opening chests or refuse it stopping to throw money in this game. the real problem in my opinion is that we werent aware of this change, n gree did it purposelly in the shadow, thats not fair nor ethical, i cant see any respect for us, its like if u tell some1 to bet choosing between 2 numbers but actually there are more. i would call it robbing :P so if gree changes something plz let us know, so that we can decide if/how to spend our money, if we knew about this change we couldnt complain about the lower chance of nemesis cuz we would have the whole responsability of our action in case we decided to open chest even with the nemesis chance lowered. same for the legendary armor, if its legendary then it should have the same chance of the other 4 stars, if it was lower then gree should have released a new class of armor so that we could be aware of the lower chance. ty

+1

Yeah doing something like that should be considered stealing and very unethical.

Keymoe
04-28-2013, 04:48 PM
Alright, I now try to speak with you rationally.

Firstly, I would say that this thread posted by you is not a wise choice, especially your attitude of current discussion. You should know that people have rights to speak freely, and you have no right to ban forum members with ridiculous reason.

I think you should really consider the reason why more and more people become complaining and panic. If you making good changes, take care for customers' benefit and feelings, why should they against you?

And for your post, I would say you cannot assume that there is someone get the armor, just they have not post their information on the forum. Yes, there maybe is, but we can only speak with proof.

No matter how you hate the evidence, I collect the data from three big gem spenders, calculate and speak the truth.

For Legendary armor, the probability is quite low, even you double, triple or even ten time the results, the probability is still quite low. 9,200 gems for 1 armor. You cannot even deny this fact by yourself. I would say that armor is quite expensive, should be gained by opening Diamond chest.

For Nemesis, after my calculation, and many other players' feedback, the probability is between 1/11 to 1/12, which proved my calculation, and also proved that GREE did nerf the percentage of gaining nemesis.

This is what GREE did wrong, and we must both accept that and make a solution for solving it. Otherwise the gaming environment will become worse and people will quit, you and I both know that.

At last, wiser would always be all ears with others, especially listen from the god --- our customers. Our opinion and feedback not only are your key to survival, but also help you to improve the product and overcome your competitors. You should thanks our efforts and contribution, not force us selective silence.

I do wish K&D will become better and better, otherwise I would not say too much and keep helping forum members.

Please do consider our customers' opinion, thanks:)

+1. This game used to be awesome to its players, the ones who didnt buy gems didnt have too small a disadvantage to the ones who do, but now you can't even get nemesis without paying 200 gems supposedly. Shape up...

pown otto
04-28-2013, 06:58 PM
I know im new here and my opinion probably isnt worth much, and i have no clue about stuff but i just want to say that i have played games like this, where they make it so people have to spend more and more to get the good armor and try to drain the players of all their money, this causes the players to be infuriated and quit bringing as many people as possible out of spite, but this is just from what i have experienced from other games. Like i said im new and i dont know alot about what goes on here ;)

Justice711
04-28-2013, 07:03 PM
Guess its time they came out with a 5 star armor.. What is more epic then legendary? Lol.. Then people know its extremely rare.

pown otto
04-28-2013, 09:24 PM
Guess its time they came out with a 5 star armor.. What is more epic then legendary? Lol.. Then people know its extremely rare.

yeah like ancient armor or something, good idea tbh

Howzee87
04-28-2013, 10:21 PM
I think Busteroaf has covered most of the points I would have made - bottom of page 2.
The only other thing I'd like to point out is to all of you who are saying that changing the odds of receiving a certain armor is "unethical", "stealing", "robbery", etc. The odds change every time a new item is added to the chests. If there are more items in the chest, the chance of receiving each one is lowered - that's how it works.
GREE are under no obligation to tell you the odds have changed - and they're certainly not going to share the actually statistics. Chance is chance is chance. Would you expect a casino to share the odds of winning at any of its games?
I'm not saying the odds shouldn't be reviewed - maybe the number of items you could win should stay constant; if a new item is added an old one comes out - but saying that not sharing the odds with us is "stealing" is very petty and completely wrong.

The complaints about difficulty getting rare armor reminds me of a great quote from The Incredibles (stay with me here):
"And when everyone's Super, no one is"

zhy
04-28-2013, 10:54 PM
well actually when u go to casino to play roulette u know there are 37 numbers :p n u also know that in each deck of cards there are 4 10s js qs ks aces, now go to bet to a number on roulette knowing u have 1/37 chance n after u bet they change rules n add 37 more numbers :p or go to play blackjack n when u have 12 pts knowing usually there are more or less 16 cards that can make u loose u ask for another one, then the croupier add 16 more 10s to the deck, tell me u would be happy n i wont call it unethical :p well also if u are ok about that we can play together :p i make the dealer n i can change things while the game is running n u started to play with different rules :p

Raistmar
04-28-2013, 10:56 PM
I think Busteroaf has covered most of the points I would have made - bottom of page 2.
The only other thing I'd like to point out is to all of you who are saying that changing the odds of receiving a certain armor is "unethical", "stealing", "robbery", etc. The odds change every time a new item is added to the chests. If there are more items in the chest, the chance of receiving each one is lowered - that's how it works.
GREE are under no obligation to tell you the odds have changed - and they're certainly not going to share the actually statistics. Chance is chance is chance. Would you expect a casino to share the odds of winning at any of its games?
I'm not saying the odds shouldn't be reviewed - maybe the number of items you could win should stay constant; if a new item is added an old one comes out - but saying that not sharing the odds with us is "stealing" is very petty and completely wrong.

The complaints about difficulty getting rare armor reminds me of a great quote from The Incredibles (stay with me here):
"And when everyone's Super, no one is"


Prior to the addition of the new legendary armor, the only new addition was the new nemesis and as far as I know once a new boss comes out the new nemesis is added and the old one taken out, so if that's the case I guess that shouldn't change the odds of getting the nemesis right?

I haven't opened many chest but I haven't heard anyone getting the older nemesis.

zhy
04-28-2013, 11:04 PM
yes raistmar ure right, also the new legendary chance is so low that can change much other armors chance :p

busteroaf
04-28-2013, 11:14 PM
well actually when u go to casino to play roulette u know there are 37 numbers :p n u also know that in each deck of cards there are 4 10s js qs ks aces, now go to bet to a number on roulette knowing u have 1/37 chance n after u bet they change rules n add 37 more numbers :p or go to play blackjack n when u have 12 pts knowing usually there are more or less 16 cards that can make u loose u ask for another one, then the croupier add 16 more 10s to the deck, tell me u would be happy n i wont call it unethical :p well also if u are ok about that we can play together :p i make the dealer n i can change things while the game is running n u started to play with different rules :p

Wall of text and smiles hits you for 10k damage. You die.

Also, in roulette, there are 37 (38 american)... And the payout for hitting a single number? 35 to 1. So even if you placed a bet on every number, you go home a winner, just with less money than you had before. Hell, start making split bets, corner bets, street bets, your payouts become even smaller even though you increased your odds right?

Also, they didn't change the % mid people buying it, or as you say, betting. If they changed the percentage , it was between "event" times. After one boss and before the next. There's a difference between what you are saying and what may or may not have (but probably) happened.

And again, get over it.

zhy
04-28-2013, 11:31 PM
we are not talking about how to bet a roulette :p i never bet on a single number ofc, if u dudnt get it yet was an example to make ppl understand changing chance while the game is running isnt correct. n yes i said while the game is running, cuz what do u mean between 2 events? :p those few minutes while the old boss dies n the new one start? lol ofc not :p but u cant consider there is a period of time between 2 events, ppl can open chests to get nemesis if they notice they need one to reach they goal they aim for or also ppl cam start to play later cuz they were busy when the new boss has been release, like some of my allies got their boss armor yesterday or today, 2 got it few hours ago. so there is not a time between the events like u say

busteroaf
04-29-2013, 06:26 AM
Actually, since every time the chest comes out with a new armor, it is a different chest. Once one boss ends and they release the next one, a different program is used. Like someone else mentioned, how often do you pull old nemesis from the chests? That means they program it with a new code each time to account for what they add in and take out. THAT is the time between events. We don't see it, but be honest, are you opening chests last ,minute to get the nemesis right before an event ends? No, most do it at the beginning or middle. Your example is if they released the chest and said 10% chance to win, then came out with a new % middle of the chest. No, that is not what happened in this case. Unless someone can prove they had different drop rates (other than the 3x for buying 11 at once) your example is still flawed.

And my example from roulette was to show that the house always has an advantage. So unless you get lucky, the house will win in the end. Here, the house is Gree.

zhy
04-29-2013, 07:42 AM
actually my example is stronger than urs :P but u seem so sure about what ure saying :P as i always said we cant prove they changed it but we all know they did :P but now can u prove they use a different program each time? and how can u know if they really change all chests rewards chance or only add the new nemesis n take out the old one? this seems much more realistic :P n nope i dont open enough chest at the end of a boss, but do u? :P do u open enough chests to say they didnt change em in the end of a event? plz... beside u work for gree i dont see how u can know that :P or maybe u do, who knows :P the only thing u can be sure about is that they didnt say the rewards chance, but actually i never said they did :P in conclusion i cant prove when they changed, u neither, nor we cant prove they really changed something, but as i said, as u said also, n as most of ppl said they probably did, no matter when they changed, but they did without letting us know, n thats not fair for ppl who expected to get nemesis opening less chests in average than they have to do now, then u could answer saying again they dont have to tell us they changed :P ofc not or some ppl could call their lawyer n i wouldnt complain posting here but would have threatened em sending mails :P, remember the different between what gree have to do n what they should do to be an ethical, fair n respectful company.

edit : again the roulette example was to say its not fair to change things when u make ppl expect different ones, n i think we are all smart enough to know that the dealer always win, but what does really matters is how gree wins.

starkthunder
04-29-2013, 07:55 AM
I don't know if they changed the chances for nemesis in the middle but the did change the upgrade points. first one I got I maxed with 4 snakeskin 2nd one 8 snakeskin only took it to L 13

busteroaf
04-29-2013, 08:14 AM
remember the different between what gree have to do n what they should do to be an ethical, fair n respectful company.

You're expecting them to ethical, fair, and respectful? How old are you? That is putting some human emotion into business. Business isn't always fair. That is the part you, and many others, are missing. Have you ever had to work with a friend? Been their boss? Ever have to fire a friend? When they are screwing up your business, you know, the thing putting money in your pocket (or the reason for firing them: them failing to put money in your pocket, or taking money out of your pocket) would you like to be fair and ethical and respectful to that friend? Do you give that friend the "oh, but they're my friend. I need to be fair and respectful." No, you don't. Because they weren't to you. Its business. You do what you can to get ahead. They (GREE) are out to make money. Plain and simple. They are running a giant lottery and many smaller games of chance that are intended to suck money out of your wallet and time out of your day, to get you hooked. This is all disguised as a fun, colorful little game where you build up a castle and fight epic boss battles and yadda yadda.

Yes, I totally work for Gree, exposing the basics of their game. Not. I run a restaurant and bar. You know, sucking money out of the general public by raising the prices of things they can buy at the grocery store and enjoy at home for far cheaper, while providing them an entertaining and fun atmostphere to relax in, while paying the staff as minimal amount we can to maximize profit. Oh lord, when I say it like that I sound like the devil. That is just how the industry works. Very similar business model if you want to start comparing things.

And sure, if the average for pulling nemesis "used to be" a certain % and now it isn't... who is to say it is not fair? Maybe they thought it was unbalancing the game to have the drop % as high as it was, thus they lowered it. Or with new strong armors being released... ah screw it. Read this: THEY DO NOT HAVE TO TELL YOU SQUAT about when, why or how they do it. That is BUSINESS.

And my "different program" where I said they take one armor out and add another in? Guess what, that is the change, whether they totally change %'s or not. There is new code, thus new "program." My apologies if you thought I meant they totally re-write the entire code and changed every % every time with a brand new program. I thought you'd understand what I meant. Also, if they only added and replaced the nemesis armor related to each boss, but magically the new nemesis has a lower % chance, by lowering it, another item(s) % has to change as well. That is just simple math. And if they didn't change the %, then why all the sudden does the drop seem to have changed. Doesn't make sense. Again, all simple math.

The only unfair part of all this is if they HAD told you "We will always have a set % drop for X, Y, and Z" and then change it blindly and quietly without telling anyone, while still claiming the original "we will always have a set % drop for X, Y, and Z." If that is what actually happened, and I missed it all because I haven't been playing that long, then my apologies, but I don't think it was, so I retract all apologies. Changing things in a game is part of the system. Hell, will you complain if they come out with a new area? But that was a change... they didn't ask permission first. How dare they.

Do you sit at the gas station and complain to the guy behind the counter every time the gas prices change? Do you ask why it went up $0.05 vs. the last time you bought gas? No, its part of business. If you go to the corporate people (or like homeboy in another thread said "I want to talk to someone in a higher pay grade") you'll get some big long drawn out explaination that makes no sense to you on why fluctuations in prices depend on such and such and blah blah. I have yet to hear of a case of gas companies refunding money because the prices increased. Someone try that. Let me know how it works for you.

Just accept it. If you don't like it, go to another game.

Raistmar
04-29-2013, 08:15 AM
Since we're in a discussion regarding changing stuffs half way through, I recall that they changed the level requirement for 4 star armor to craft the updated version from level 20 to level 35. That happened when there was a sale on gold purchase. And that was in the middle of the last boss event.

zhy
04-29-2013, 08:34 AM
1. ur thought seems a little too "acient" :P gree is company big enough to let us talk about ethical sustainability...well hope u know what im talking about :P n we are not talking about employees who do bad their work, but about customers.

2. again gree is big enough dont think ur business is too, so we cant compare em :P

3. seems u didnt read the part where i said they dont have to let us know but they should, again ethical sustainability

4. if they release a new area, its a totally different thing :P cuz its only a new area, nothing hidden, n in most of case doesnt have much to do with our gems

5. never thought when the gas price changes they do tell u in the bill? :P dunno if they do where u live, but here they have to be transparent :P

6. i dont have to accept anything or leave :P u still missed that im complaing n asking, using words like should n not gree have to...im not pretending, but seems u like to put im my mouth words i never said :P u should relax a little n think more logically :P

busteroaf
04-29-2013, 08:54 AM
1. Employee's/customers... customers can steal from companies too. You don't think "hey, check this out, I found a way to get free gems over and over" is considered "stealing" by Gree? Sure, it is just taking advantage of what is out there already. It isn't "Stealing" by our standards right? But if everyone knows tricks on how to get free gems, you know, where they make the bulk of their money in this game, wouldn't that affect their business model? Or make them want to up the prices since more people have more gems? Don't be naive.

2. You don't know the size of my business. And just because its only a multi-million dollar business with multiple locations where I live, yes, it isn't a gaming company giant. But businesses can be compared no matter what size.

3. "They don't have to but should." Hmm. I think that is countered by my "They don't have to." The "but should" doesn't change anything. Yes, that is the ethical part. But it is business. Ethics aren't always present. So our arguments of "They don't have to" and "they don't have to but should" cancel each other out.

4. True. But it could unbalance the game, having to come up with new boss drops, new element combo's, etc. Also, you aren't required to use gems to play the game either.

5. Did they tell you why the gas prices changed each time? That was my point, not physically seeing a sign. Yes, the prices changed, I see that on the sign, or on my receipt. Much like the prices of the chest changed. Last time I checked, when those boxes come up that say "are you sure you want to pay $25 for this?" or the "spend X gems to refresh health?"... you just saw the change. And it didn't "hide" anything from you, saying "refresh health?" with some unknown amount of gems to be spent.

6. You are right. You don't have to accept it and leave. That is just my opinion. And also, when you type with words like "u" and fail to use capitalization or punctuation other than ":P" and ":p" over and over between sentences, I must have thought you seemed younger or immature (again, my opinion) and that I must have thought I could get away with putting words in your mouth. But, at least I can see now that you know how to use an ordered list. So, my apologies.

zhy
04-29-2013, 09:24 AM
1. it happened again :P i never said customers cant steal :P what i meant is treat employees fairly n customers ethically, doesnt mean u must not do anything if they steal from u, ofc u can :P cuz its fair to react that way if they do something that bad to u

2. oh my turn to apologyze for have thought u had a small business :P well even if u have a big one, tell me if thats fair : ur restaurant is known for using excellent ingredients (see u never have written anywhere that), so many customers choose to come to urs intead of other restaurants, after few months in order to maximize ur profit, u decide to change from excellent quality to good quality, yeah its still ok with law, but thats not fair if u dont tell ur customers.

3. yes i know ethics isnt always present :P thats y im asking/complaining/suggesting n not /wanting/threatening/pretending

4. i dont have to spend gems as customers can choose to go to other restaurants rather urs, i do spend gems if gree made me think i could get my nemesis in about 5 chests, as ur customers could (in the example) come to urs cuz u made em think u will always use excellent quality ingredients

5. i dont need to know the reason y they changed to decide if keep spending or stop, all the info i need to know is if they did change. if they said they changed it was enough for some ppl to take a different decision, yeah maybe some would have been upset anyway, n then gree could share the reason in that case to make ppl understand y they worked that way, but again telling us they changed is something they should do, while telling us the reason is something they might want to do if they really tell us they changed

6. yeah sorry :P i use to write that way :P tongues help me to keep calm n to think rationally :P but dont help my typing :P i have never been good to write long things :P oh i accept ur apologies :P

RadLonghammer
04-29-2013, 09:32 AM
Busteroaf makes some very solid points about the realities of doing business. As a bar/restaurant owner, he is NOT in business to show people a good time. He's in business to put food on his family's table, keep a roof over their heads, put his kids through college, and hopefully enjoy some of the finer things in life. No business in the world exists for any reason other than to enrich its owners/shareholders, no matter how much you might like to believe it does. Buster may well ENJOY giving people a good time, many bar owners do, but it's not the driving motivation behind the existence of his bar. His establishment is essentially, to paraprhase his own words, a relaxing, enjoyable environment in which people will be motivated to spend their disposable income on the enjoyment of a recreational activity.

K&D is no different.

It's like a bar that has no cover charge, and no purchase minimums on food and beverages. And water is free! You're welcome to hang out, enjoy the atmosphere, flirt with the cute girls, dance to the music, throw darts with your buddies, and all with NO OBLIGATION to spend any money. Conversely, if you feel you'll have a better time after a few drinks, it's certainly available for you, and you can make your own personal decision as to whether or not what you purchase is or is not worth the price!

Heck, a bar owner might even decide that he'd like to trade some of the goods he has for sale for some advertising. The owner may offer a free drink to a customer that wears a T-shirt with his bar's logo on it, or for putting the bar's bumper sticker on his car. That's almost exactly the exchange we're making when we take advantage of a "free gem" offer that allows us to enjoy some of what's for sale without going into our own wallet to do so.

busteroaf
04-29-2013, 09:48 AM
Zhy: Your example about ingredients is actually quite a good one. If I did change the menu after saying "fresh, house-cut potato chips" to a pre-cut frozen chip, and still say it is "house-cut" then yes, it is wrong, and it has happened before at places I've run. But like the Hardee's commercials say so nicely of their competition: "fresh made biscuits. fresh 20 days ago and frozen." it is often the same thing with business. They throw words around like that, without them being true, or stretch things as far as they legally can in advertising etc. It isn't right, nor is it fair to the guests, but, again, that is how business works. Again, maximizing profit while minimizing costs to put more money in my/owners/shareholders pocket. Sadly, I don't think Gree did this. Again, correct me if this happened in the past, but I don't think they advertised the chest as one thing, and then gave out another.

Rad: Thank you for putting into words what I would have liked to have said in a very non-confrontational way.

zhy
04-29-2013, 09:54 AM
what if the bar owener used to make mojito with 5 cl rum, which it was ok for ppl, then he decides to reduce costs using only 4cl of rum? :P yeah dont need to tell me that i can decide to stop going to his bar, but well is that fair? yeah ure a good strict business man :P i like to be fair to everyone n say what things are even risking to loose some money sometimes, i had a shop, if ppl came back saying something didnt work on that after few days, i used to take the old back n give em a new one even without any warranty, a loss? maybe or maybe not :P i had 2 options, feeling bad for my actions n avoid a current loss, or feel good for have helped some1 else n also build up customer loyalty :P i choose the 2nd option :P well didnt mean to tell u the story of my life lol but there are 2 aspects on working ethically, the one u 2 might dont care (working farly n ethically for ur own feeling) n the one that u 2 also should agree, working ethically can help ur business profits, thats y its called ethical sustainability, cuz u can go ahead on making money in a ethical way

edit after reading buste last post : actually they are still doing fake adv :P i already said that in other threads, black chest says rare n above guaranteed, but nemesis is uncommon :P

RadLonghammer
04-29-2013, 10:31 AM
what if the bar owener used to make mojito with 5 cl rum, which it was ok for ppl, then he decides to reduce costs using only 4cl of rum? :P yeah dont need to tell me that i can decide to stop going to his bar, but well is that fair?

I believe it is absolutely fair, provided the establishment hasn't advertised a 5 cl drink. If we, as customers, will bear that 20% price increase to continue drinking at that bar, then by continuing to frequent it (in the presence of other options, of course), we have affirmed that very fairness. When a business is able to zero in on the maximum amount it can charge customers while still retaining their willing custom, they have reached optimum pricing, and are well on their way to success.

What K&D has done, through the Dark Prince chests, and possibly through changing the odds against a chest providing Nemesis, is increase the price of the Nemesis armor. It's highly likely that GREE noticed that players were (under the old system) spending gold keys on Enchanted chests until they got their coveted Nemesis armor, at which point the spending stopped. After all, haven't we noticed a similar trend in the "Share your Results" thread?

By acting in such a manner as consumers, we've told Gree that we place a high value on Nemesis armor. As an competent business would, Gree recognized that it was underpricing one of its most valued goods. Consequently, seeing that their market would bear it, they increased the price. They didn't announce it, but we noticed it the same way we'd notice a 20% reduction in the amount of rum in a cocktail.

Look, it's very easy to view Gree's actions as "price-gouging" by some faceless, "evil" corporation. But I challenge all of us to look at it from a different perspective, and realize that there are very few among us who wouldn't make the very same decision in our personal lives as (if applicable) employees.

Suppose you are one of 10 employees working for a company, and you all make the same rate of pay. You, however, through a combination of superior skill and superior work ethic, consistently produce 50% more output than your coworkers. At some point, you MUST realize that you're underselling your labor, and you might well determine that you're going to raise your price. You might walk into your bosses office, explain that you can demonstrate your higher value to the company, and perhaps ask for a 25% raise. If your boss is wise, he'll recognize that at 25% higher cost, but 50% greater output, you are still giving him a good deal and he'll give you the raise. In that case, you've just raised your price to a level the market will bear, and yes, enriched yourself by doing so.

Of course, you could take a different tack. You could recognize that your peers are making the same money as you by putting forth less, and decide to curtail your output and spend more of your day relaxing rather than working. Gree could have done the same. They could have curtailed their efforts toward further development of the game (new armors, new and exciting armors, etc.) let a few employees go, and continued making the money they were making with a reduced bottom-line cost.

I don't know about y'all, but of the above two scenarios, I find the former to be completely reasonable, and the latter somewhat deplorable. But hey, that's just my own personal ethical code at work.

My $.02, for whatever that's worth.

zhy
04-29-2013, 11:19 AM
well im getting tired to repeat it again...but seems u dont understand what i mean...all this last post was about gree doing a good job n earning more money, did i ever denied that? from my 1st post my complaints werent about lower chance of nemesis / or higher price, very very shortly ive already said what u meant in ur last post, but again im complaing about not letting us know, not about the current nemesis price...got it? :P

edit read this :P


hello wise one :P my issue with KD isnt that gree lowered the chance of nemesis from black chests (obviously if it was higher i would be much happier), indeed its a gree choice n we are free to accept it n keep opening chests or refuse it stopping to throw money in this game. the real problem in my opinion is that we werent aware of this change, n gree did it purposelly in the shadow, thats not fair nor ethical, i cant see any respect for us, its like if u tell some1 to bet choosing between 2 numbers but actually there are more. i would call it robbing :P so if gree changes something plz let us know, so that we can decide if/how to spend our money, if we knew about this change we couldnt complain about the lower chance of nemesis cuz we would have the whole responsability of our action in case we decided to open chest even with the nemesis chance lowered. same for the legendary armor, if its legendary then it should have the same chance of the other 4 stars, if it was lower then gree should have released a new class of armor so that we could be aware of the lower chance. ty

n u will understand that u didnt explain the fairness about chaging odds without letting us know, which i feel unethical, while u explained very well the fairness only about the price change part, that i never said it wasnt :P

busteroaf
04-29-2013, 11:26 AM
Zhy: Having the Nemesis as an uncommon rarity armor is misleading. It is clearly more powerful than many other uncommon armors, but mostly due to the increased damage against bosses. I would say it is definitely rare or higher, especially since it can only be gained in the DPC, but it is also a minor (in my eyes) oversight by the programmers to have it listed as uncommon. Most people would agree it is at least rare, if not better, would they not? So, If you want to say that is false advertising, so be it.

zhy
04-29-2013, 11:43 AM
actually i always thought it was only programmers minor mistake n ofc most of ppl know that nemesis has a high value, but well, if they wanna work that seriously not caring about ethic then they should pay more attention to these little mistakes :P think u got what i mean but will explain anyway.
if u treat some1 fairly then they wont care about these little oversights, if u act in the shadow n change things without telling anyone than some1 could also call these little mistakes as fake adv, even if he/she knows its only a little mistake

edit : im my opinion its the same thing, they dont have to tell us anything but they should for fairness, n im not supposed to know its a programmer oversight n not a fake adv, but i should

busteroaf
04-29-2013, 01:21 PM
Gambling: yup, I agree. Being ripped off: its relative to each person.

How exactly are they ripping you off? And if they are guilty of it, blame Magic, Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh, and every other card game out there. Hell, blame the baseball and football and basketball card makers. They don't sell complete sets, but instead packs. They put random cards in there with 1:250 packs chance to get it. Are they not guilty of the same thing? Even buying a whole box of card packs doesn't guarantee a full set. You assume it does, but it doesn't. Buying any kind of card pack, or similar where the results are hidden to you, you always take a chance. Games of chance = gambling. The rip off? Because they let you spend and spend, and people assume they will get something of value? You're paying money to get an item that *potentially* has more value than regular items you can get from in game play alone. Don't see the rip off. Or maybe I've thought about this too much and my head hurts.

zhy
04-29-2013, 01:29 PM
ha i plaied all those 3 cards game when i was younger :P i won also some pokemon tourney n ranked to partecipate to national tourney but my parents didnt bother to bring me there cuz was too far lol

JMFL
04-29-2013, 04:12 PM
Don't know if this is the appropriate place for this but since this thread has the admin's ear, I thought I'd give it a shot. I'm a fairly new player to K & D, I try to follow the forums so I can learn because you're certainly not gonna get any help from Gree. For example, I have no idea what capes do, I have purchased some and have not seen any affect on attack and defense, there appears to be nothing in the game to tell what they're for, so why bother purchasing them?
Also, I have basically given up on trying to fuse, I'm tired of fusing two decent 2 star armors and ending up with a one star piece of crap. Right now have 21 fusion stones and many 2, 3, and 4 star armors but why do I want to risk fusing them when EVERY TIME I do I get something less. Again, can partly be due to my inexperience and have referenced the forums for info but it seems the chances of getting something better in fusion are negligible. So, why bother?

Vigorous
04-29-2013, 04:43 PM
Capes a purely cosmetic as are wings. A lot of games have accessories that do nothing xP it's content for people that enjoy glamming it up. For people that only care about stats just don't buy it :)

The Wise One
04-29-2013, 04:58 PM
Hi,

Going to close this thread as the main message was to respect each other, no profanity, etc.

It was a fun read going from the above > chest/armor > casinos > restaurants. But, please open a new thread for further discussion. Glad to see all the passion going around.