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Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 06:35 AM
There are some information, attitudes or words may cause uncomfortable to audience, but I would mention that there is NOTHING personal, just describe a phenomena about current situations of beginners. I would say sorry if you DO feel uncomfortable.


And if you do not wanna read the whole post, I just post a smaller metaphor of current boss event.

1. Before chasing the boss, pls read the data sheet of all armors, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArPIArNuLRi7dGVrc1BqV2J1czAzY1AyR1kxSko4V lE#gid=0

You can find out the huge stats different between normal version and +version armors.

The stats which show on the boss screen are PLUS version, thus when you pass 15 stage, you can only craft a rubbish armor with NORMAL version, not what you see on the boss screen.

2. Okay, Let me tell you what is this boss event, buildings and players like.

The Buildings can be seen as your INCOME, the more top level buildings you own, the higher income you gain.
In the reality, if you have high salary, you can buy lots of thing, right? In the game, buildings are your wallet, if you wanna buy a CAR, then work HARD.

The Boss armor can be seen as NEW CAR, the GREE company produces new CARS for each week, if you are just find a JOB, you cannot afford that, even you use all your resources, like debt from parents (buy from store) or begging (ask help from players), you cannot afford that too.

Why, because you need to pay INSURANCE (cost of enhancement), which can be higher than the car itself!
Actually in this game, the enhancement cost would be much much much more expensive than the crafting cost.

Then you need to buy GASOLINE to keep your car's operation (farm material from stronger enemies), You cannot use cooking oil on your car...But gasoline is hard to achieve (higher level and stronger armor require).

Now you can see why the boss armor is not suitable for you guys. You just find a job with low salary, need to work hard and get PROMOTION, so that one day you will eventually get that. If you have no patient, you will probably getting fired....(quit the game by yourself).



The content below is the complete version.


HOW BEGINNERS FAILED?

That's an interesting topic.

I would say, started the game with different choices & strategies, but failed with same ends...

WHY?

The answer is obvious, lack of consideration, observation and narrow thinking.


There are many useful threads on the forum, including nearly all information about K&D from start to probably end, why don't you BEGINNERS read them? Why keep post: add me pls, need pass 15 stage, blahblahblah. And even post on many discussion thread.....Would you consider that rude behavior before taking action?


Let me provide few questions to help figure out the problem of failed.


1. What's key of K&D?

The answer is ARMORS.
Although GOLDS, GEMS, ETC. are also important, but they are all around with ARMORS.

2. What do you think about the Buildings?

The buildings give you GOLD!
Without GOLDS, how can you fuse, how can you craft your armor, how can you upgrade your armor and make it better stats so that can clear more stages?

With this understandings, why are you BEGINNERS keep chasing LV70 armors? Even you got that, do you have ENOUGH golds to support? Let me give you a number, no matter how you balance your budget, to max out a LV70 armor, you need to prepare at least 1.5 million golds. Consider you are beginners, much less efficiency, prepare 2+ million golds.
Do you have that amount golds? If not why don't you chase a so called lv70 armors then let it have a rest for a long time without upgrading? That's a kind of wasting MONEY and TIME, typical POOR investment.

3. Why do you guys chase that damn useless NORMAL version RUBBISH boss armor?

1) The normal version's stats are sucks!
2) You do not have enough golds to support.
3) You cannot have enough power to gain higher rarity armor to upgrade it.

SO TELL ME WHY?

Let's make a SIMULATION:

PLAN A, so called you beginners' way.

WOW, What a wonderful boss armor! I wanna get that! ADD me my code is xxxxxxxxx, need pass 15. blahblahblah.

After cost many resources and gain enough material, WTF, 200,000 GOLDS, I don't have it, what can I do?

I have 10 spots, can give me 25,000 golds per day, 8 days later, I can craft time DREAM armor, 8 days...8 days....8.....NO!!! I want it NOW, then buy GOLDS from stores.

There may have a PLAN A+, that people may need 8 days then craft, well, no big different, failed again.

Then the armor is finished, WOW, I have a Destroyer to dominate the map and arena, let me upgrade it. What? Only 50,000 GOLDS left, and WTF it is extremely HARD to upgrade. Hmm...I need more gold.
PLAN A keep buying from stores, PLAN A+ keep waiting.

Well, about 80 days later......Both PLAN finally max out the armor, WOW, I am NO.1 now, come on NOOBS, Let me 1 shot you all in the arena.

Then He faces a lv100 with maxed out Hydra+, get beaten by 1 shot after a critical simple attack....

Then He think he is unlucky, he tried again with another players, who with maxed out Regalia+, then a classic simple attack kill him again.....WTF, Stupid game!!! I quit! SCREW YOU GREE!


Well, maybe some of you may not quit, but keep STRUGGLING on inefficiency development, and keep making mistake under GREE's distraction, keep failing, keep purchasing from stores, until someday you can not tolerate anymore and quit.....

Let's see PLAN B.


PLAN B.

Now we know we have 10 spots, each day 25,000 golds, well, seems not efficiently, there is a training field, 2 days later, I can build one, which will give me much gold.

Thus now each spot give me 2,500 golds per day, after 2 days, I spend 50,000 on purchasing 1 training field, that will give me 28,008 golds per day, cost 2 spots, then plus 8*2,500=20,000 golds from old buildings, after 2 days, I can gain 48,008 golds per day now, my income DOUBLED!

Then on the 4th day, I spend 50,000 golds on purchasing another training fields, thus now I have 2, the income would be 56,016 golds+ 6*2,500=71,016 GOLDS

Then Each day I can have at least 1 more training fields, after 7-8 days I own 10 of them, then I can upgrade them to level 2, or make the expansion to have more spots, so that I can have more training fields, which means more GOLDS.

IF There is a PLAN B+, it will upgrade the building during the process and spend GEMS to make some of them to the TOP level, thus each Training field will give you 48,000 GOLDS per day, and your development, creating and upgrading buildings, make the expansion will be much faster than before.

Then After 20+ days, I made all expansions with all TOP LEVEL Training Fields, I can earn 546,000 GOLDS per day!!!

Let's see what are PLAN A and PLAN A+ doing on the 20+ days, certainly sucking on the wrong road!


No matter you BEGINNERS on PLAN A or PLAN A+ or PLAN A++

ALL dominated by PLAN B or PLAN B+

Re-evaluate the game again now.

Do what you should do as you currently levels! LV70 is for at least lv70 players, not you beginners, ofc you will feel tough, hard, panic for chasing that useless armors.

The buildings have their REASONS to exist, make the balance, build better buildings during your growing up.

READ and LEARN many useful post, instead of asking repeatedly stupid question with rude manner.

LAST, DO NOT POST ADD ME, HELP ME ON OTHERS POST, EXTREMELY RUDE!!!

Budd
05-06-2013, 08:16 AM
So what you're saying is noobs will be noobs.

Slevinn
05-06-2013, 08:18 AM
Had alot of lols when ready this. Imagining how people would play it haha.
Some great tips to new players. Only one pointer, there are many players who are new to this game (also only addicted in the first weeks, not very dedicated) who don't want to listen to tips from other players. They are just greedy for the boss armors and spamming about add me (like u allready said). For the rest great information once again.

Slevinn
05-06-2013, 08:20 AM
So what you're saying is noobs will be noobs.

Not exactly. He is pointing out one of the ways that many players approach the game. He is also showing a diffrent approach for more gaining in the long run.

iisaiahc
05-06-2013, 08:32 AM
Apart from the sarcasm, it is still good advice as usual! I for one have made it far since day 1! Managed to max out 8 of my training fields + 3 armorsmith! 18 levels away from 100!

zhy
05-06-2013, 08:37 AM
had fun reading plan A :P

Banjo
05-06-2013, 09:16 AM
I can attest to the fact that when I first started I was in Plan A. I believe the first boss armor I crafted was the Deep Dragon Mail. I thought I was so bad ass for getting it. Of course before I realized it I was wrong. I didn't get far enough for the + version. I believe after it was crafted, I enhanced it up to Lvl 26 and realized it was taking a big chunk of my gold to even craft it that far.

So I started reading the forums...

After reading the tips from Harvey and the others, I took a step back reevaluated what I was doing and now I focus on leveling up, collecting as much money as I can. Still working on expanding the 500,000 spots, and enhancing the + versions of the basic 4 and farm the bosses. Also quit chasing the boss armor until I'm strong enough to get past stage 43.

Howzee87
05-06-2013, 09:20 AM
I actually find this post a lot ruder than those asking for help.

New players don't know the most efficient way to do things so they either; ask for help, or struggle until they find a better way to do it.
If they do ask for help and you can't be bothered repeating yourself again and again just provide a link to the 'beginners guide' you wrote up. Maybe put it in your signature.

I've been playing strategy games like Age of Empires, Warcraft, etc, for as long as I can remember so I could see the benefits of your 'Plan B' when I started. Mobile games are targeted at casual gamers (aka; people who "don't play video games") so they may not see/understand the benefits of saving up for the expensive buildings that gather more gold - they see a quick fix in fountains/towers and just go for that. This is where the quests come in. As the player progress the game is actually guiding them to save for the bigger buildings.

And there are several benefits to these new players aiming for a (non +) boss armour;
They're stronger than most/all of the armours that can be produced from the first 5 or 6 areas
They'll get all the extras that come with defeating the boss (keys, gems, armour, etc)
It gives them something to strive for

Sure once you are able to regularly, and easily, get a + version the base version isn't useful, but these new players can't do that and they aren't going to simply ‘not kill the boss at all’ because they can't get a + version armour. They may not even care. They may just really like the look of it.

I don't mean any offence Harvey - you've helped me out in game and I've gotten a lot of tips from you (and the other regular high-level forum members). I'm simply asking you to take a step off your high-horse and remember that;
You were once Level 1 and didn't know all the things about the game that you do now
Not everyone plays this (or any) game the same way

Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 09:30 AM
Well, I admit that this post is not polite enough, but after experienced so many things, I have to say that I do have little annoyed by some new players.

The forum has many great information provided by forum members, if new players read at least a little bit, they may not keep asking silly questions. And some of them even with pretty rude attitude, even that, I still gave them enough answers, but there is no even a 'thank you' or 'cheers', just watch then gone, where is the manner?

And each place has its rules, this forum too. If new players really wanna help, they can search the friend thread, there are many people left their codes, or go to the weekly boss thread which posted by the wise one, I'm sure lots of people may help each other. But they just ignore all of this, directly spam at many discussion post, it is really annoying.

After experiencing lots of these unhappy thing, I would post this thread to tell them something they should know or they should do before taking actions.

Again, different people find different information in this post, sure their results in future vary too.

Thanks for noticing me about the attitude. I would say sorry for beginners.
I actually find this post a lot ruder than those asking for help.

New players don't know the most efficient way to do things so they either; ask for help, or struggle until they find a better way to do it.
If they do ask for help and you can't be bothered repeating yourself again and again just provide a link to the 'beginners guide' you wrote up. Maybe put it in your signature.

I've been playing strategy games like Age of Empires, Warcraft, etc, for as long as I can remember so I could see the benefits of your 'Plan B' when I started. Mobile games are targeted at casual gamers (aka; people who "don't play video games") so they may not see/understand the benefits of saving up for the expensive buildings that gather more gold - they see a quick fix in fountains/towers and just go for that. This is where the quests come in. As the player progress the game is actually guiding them to save for the bigger buildings.

And there are several benefits to these new players aiming for a (non +) boss armour;
They're stronger than most/all of the armours that can be produced from the first 5 or 6 areas
They'll get all the extras that come with defeating the boss (keys, gems, armour, etc)
It gives them something to strive for

Sure once you are able to regularly, and easily, get a + version the base version isn't useful, but these new players can't do that and they aren't going to simply ‘not kill the boss at all’ because they can't get a + version armour. They may not even care. They may just really like the look of it.

I don't mean any offence Harvey - you've helped me out in game and I've gotten a lot of tips from you (and the other regular high-level forum members). I'm simply asking you to take a step off your high-horse and remember that;
You were once Level 1 and didn't know all the things about the game that you do now
Not everyone plays this (or any) game the same way

Ryuugan
05-06-2013, 09:39 AM
hahaha truth hurts also funny.... when i started i was on plan A also... 1 day after i took plan b and collect golds for training field... then had enough gold to aim for atlantean+ which i saw not a bad stat through Armor Spreadsheet

iisaiahc
05-06-2013, 09:42 AM
I would say that the first 1-2 pages of the forum provides many useful thread with constructive answers for beginners. Instead of spoon feeding them, i feel the mods should just sticky one of these threads titled something like " New to KnD? Read Here for TIPS! " which would save time for the beginners. The thread could then have links to threads like fusion armor, leveling etc...

Justice711
05-06-2013, 09:43 AM
Too bad we can't sticky any good post... A lot of good stuff for noob always get thrown somewhere that nobody remembers.. :/

If only we got a better administrator... Harvey frustration wouldn't boil over...

Hello, wise one... Talking about u... U must consider sticky some of the help guide that people have posted... As a beginniner once, I know its difficult to read through all people's post..

Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 10:09 AM
Totally agreed with you guys, but I doubt that the wise one would not do that.

As we all know, there is always a conflict of benefit between GREE and players, we can see after many changes, especially downgrade gaining nemesis, and increase the crafting cost of boss armor, which show a clearly signal, newbies, come our stores and buy golds and gems.

And what we suggest new players to do is fundamentally go straight with development without distraction from GREE. Our tips certainly will expose many fake advertisement from GREE, that's what GREE does not like to see. Even the wise one can give some advice, I believe all of them can only be surface level, tell them invest their money well, but even this small tip already against GREE's plan. That's is making people has a habit of purchasing, use gems speed up process, use gold to expand lands, etc. Thus I think the tip can be only provided by our members, and the wise one will not highlight or setting a guide post for beginners.
I would say that the first 1-2 pages of the forum provides many useful thread with constructive answers for beginners. Instead of spoon feeding them, i feel the mods should just sticky one of these threads titled something like " New to KnD? Read Here for TIPS! " which would save time for the beginners. The thread could then have links to threads like fusion armor, leveling etc...


Too bad we can't sticky any good post... A lot of good stuff for noob always get thrown somewhere that nobody remembers.. :/

If only we got a better administrator... Harvey frustration wouldn't boil over...

Hello, wise one... Talking about u... U must consider sticky some of the help guide that people have posted... As a beginniner once, I know its difficult to read through all people's post..

Justice711
05-06-2013, 10:13 AM
Then it's horrible that this is the best forum to go to for this game.

I play guardian cross, I am happy they have an independent forum.

Maybe the wise one can comment on this?

RadLonghammer
05-06-2013, 10:15 AM
Much of what Harvey says is correct. Much of what Howzee says is correct too.

The one real problem I have with Harvey's post/rant is that it's ONLY going to be read by the newer players that DO take time to read the useful advice of those who went before them. Those who simply spam friend requests aren't going to bother. Consequently, the A**hats that (perhaps) deserve the harsh words will never see them, and those who are making a legitimate attempt to study/understand the game will.

So to all dedicated noobs: Harvey's a good guy, he's just frustrated. As long as you're a dedicated player, and respectful within these forums, you will absolutely be embraced and encouraged the same way we all were when we were new!

Budd
05-06-2013, 10:19 AM
Not exactly. He is pointing out one of the ways that many players approach the game. He is also showing a diffrent approach for more gaining in the long run.

Yeah I guess, just sounds like an over-comiplicated rant in an attempt to relate. Players will eventually be forced to follow "plan b/+" once their health points take long than an hour to recharge. She has made quite the speculation, but all I really pulled out of this post was displeasure, and disappointment. I think if she simplified it with a little less agro, I or we may be able to sympathize her drama and disdain.

Ps. I too have maxed faerie nemisis mail, may I add you , my username is "bud?" we would make a great team.

Wredniak2003
05-06-2013, 10:30 AM
Comparison with the job and a car was a great idea, made me smile so thanks for that.

What I would may clearer in the post would be that you SHOULD try to beat the boss as even the 1-10 lvl give nice rewards, the mono spirit armor is good for enchanting and I got living flame from the boss way before I could craft it so it is a GOOD thing to tackle the boss early on. What you should NOT do is obsess over it, if you loose don't spent gems on heal or energy but level up or add some players from ADD ME thread that are somewhat in your level range. I've stated playing on the same day the new boss appeared and got easily to lvl15 on it and I will craft the armor at some point to look pretty and collect dust in my armory, as for building training fields it's great advice sadly the game keeps bothering me to build taverns and cathedrals :(

As for mods not sticking any beginner guide that is strange, I can't imagine player spending 50$+ dollars on the game without researching before what it is best spent on.

Justice711
05-06-2013, 10:31 AM
Trust me... Lots of people spend without researching... Lol

Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 10:40 AM
Thanks for the understanding:)

You are right, there do have many dedicated new players learn and benefit from forum. They should not be deserve such strong word from me, and I no mean to do that too. I just wanna made a simulation to tell other beginners who are not often read thread about a true hurt thing, which may let them rethink their strategy of this game.

Again, I do hope they can get better result than me. I did made stupid mistakes before, but after 20+ days, I finished my goal, thus I hope they can do that and do that better too:)
Much of what Harvey says is correct. Much of what Howzee says is correct too.

The one real problem I have with Harvey's post/rant is that it's ONLY going to be read by the newer players that DO take time to read the useful advice of those who went before them. Those who simply spam friend requests aren't going to bother. Consequently, the A**hats that (perhaps) deserve the harsh words will never see them, and those who are making a legitimate attempt to study/understand the game will.

So to all dedicated noobs: Harvey's a good guy, he's just frustrated. As long as you're a dedicated player, and respectful within these forums, you will absolutely be embraced and encouraged the same way we all were when we were new!

RadLonghammer
05-06-2013, 10:43 AM
Comparison with the job and a car was a great idea, made me smile so thanks for that.

What I would may clearer in the post would be that you SHOULD try to beat the boss as even the 1-10 lvl give nice rewards, the mono spirit armor is good for enchanting and I got living flame from the boss way before I could craft it so it is a GOOD thing to tackle the boss early on. What you should NOT do is obsess over it, if you loose don't spent gems on heal or energy but level up or add some players from ADD ME thread that are somewhat in your level range. I've stated playing on the same day the new boss appeared and got easily to lvl15 on it and I will craft the armor at some point to look pretty and collect dust in my armory, as for building training fields it's great advice sadly the game keeps bothering me to build taverns and cathedrals :(

As for mods not sticking any beginner guide that is strange, I can't imagine player spending 50$+ dollars on the game without researching before what it is best spent on.

This is absolutely correct. Even if a new-mid level player cannot beat the boss the 43 times required to craft the "+" version of the boss armor, the rewards for falling short are still significant.

Suppose a player is able to beat the boss only to level 35 this week. That will gain him or her (cumulatively):

18 Mystic Armors (10 EP each for a total of 180)
13 Living Flame Armors (24 EP each for a total of 312)
3 Silver Keys
3 Gold Keys
4 Gems
1 Fusion Stone
And a ton (for that level) of Gold and Experience Points

Those are darned substantial rewards for the lower-mid level player, and should NOT be left on the table.

While I would advise a newer player against obsessing over the boss drop armor, I would also advise him to use all the Epic Energy he is given to fight the boss to as high a level as he possibly can. He will not only develop his boss fighting strategy for the days when he IS able to hit the L43 boss, but will supplement his material farming/armor leveling activities as well.

Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 10:45 AM
Dude, sometimes, a hurt simulation may get better result.
Some people may rethink their strategy after reading this arguable post, that's good.
Some people may blame my attitude or think this post is nothing, keep their way, true they will eventually be like us now, but they can also feel the pain of their choice.

BTW, I'm a man...Just use a Lovely girl's photo as my avatar:)
Yeah I guess, just sounds like an over-comiplicated rant in an attempt to relate. Players will eventually be forced to follow "plan b/+" once their health points take long than an hour to recharge. She has made quite the speculation, but all I really pulled out of this post was displeasure, and disappointment. I think if she simplified it with a little less agro, I or we may be able to sympathize her drama and disdain.

Ps. I too have maxed faerie nemisis mail, may I add you , my username is "bud?" we would make a great team.

Petra
05-06-2013, 10:51 AM
Another thing to mention perhaps is to not bother upgrading armor at all unless you know its a suit of armor you're going to be using for a while. I upgraded a bunch of armor to 10 or 15, seeing if they had + versions to unlock because I figured + versions would probably be more valuable for fusing. Also, once I had a suit of Atlantean+, I kept upgrading my monk robe i got from referral up to 20 or so before I realized I should probably stop that and focus on the Atlantean+. I have the Atlantean+ up to level 35 now but I stopped to work on getting more training grounds going and selling off the taverns, cathedrals, fountains, and guard towers.

Also early on don't combine armors together at first unless its part of a quest... from what I'm reading from others, you'll run out of fusing stones eventually and the gold it costs to combine you'd be better off putting into building up your gold-making buildings.

Now I only use the basic armors to upgrade suits I know i'm going to use later at earlier stages, like getting crius and hydra hunter suits I got to unlock the + versions, and if my armory fills up with those then I use them to raise a suit of armor my knights are using that's under level 20 (like steam wizard robe). Save your snakeskin armors for armor that is already above level 20.

Budd
05-06-2013, 10:52 AM
Yes, I think there was a little too much emotion that's all. I don't mean to be a prick, and my apologies for calling you a lady. I just felt that I had to read too much, to come to a conclusion that could have been stated 1000 less characters. nonetheless, I'm sure readers will understand and form their own conclusions, this post just came off akin to a rant, and disappointment. I still enjoy reading your posts however.

Ps. may I add you, I have very few high level friends. :confused:

Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 10:54 AM
Thanks.

I've also mentioned that 1 to 10 stages does give great rewards to beginners in another thread, hope they already knew that:)

And for the quests, it is sucks...I finished them all so that you can know I totally understand your current situation.
Actually it needs a choice, some people prefer high efficiency development, some people prefer to finish all quests, or like me, have to balance and slowing down development to finish all quests then rebuild all training fields.

The monster nest really sucks...And it requires to build 2 of them...wtf...I sold them immediately after finishing quests...

And the monster nest is the second last quest about buildings, the last building quest is combine with passing several Epic stages, just need you to build a TAVERN then collect golds.....

Comparison with the job and a car was a great idea, made me smile so thanks for that.

What I would may clearer in the post would be that you SHOULD try to beat the boss as even the 1-10 lvl give nice rewards, the mono spirit armor is good for enchanting and I got living flame from the boss way before I could craft it so it is a GOOD thing to tackle the boss early on. What you should NOT do is obsess over it, if you loose don't spent gems on heal or energy but level up or add some players from ADD ME thread that are somewhat in your level range. I've stated playing on the same day the new boss appeared and got easily to lvl15 on it and I will craft the armor at some point to look pretty and collect dust in my armory, as for building training fields it's great advice sadly the game keeps bothering me to build taverns and cathedrals :(

As for mods not sticking any beginner guide that is strange, I can't imagine player spending 50$+ dollars on the game without researching before what it is best spent on.

Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 10:57 AM
No problem, a friend request has been sent to you, happy hunting:)
Yes, I think there was a little too much emotion that's all. I don't mean to be a prick, and my apologies for calling you a lady. I just felt that I had to read too much, to come to a conclusion that could have been stated 1000 less characters. nonetheless, I'm sure readers will understand and form their own conclusions, this post just came off akin to a rant, and disappointment. I still enjoy reading your posts however.

Ps. may I add you, I have very few high level friends. :confused:

Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 10:59 AM
Great tips.
This should be added if there is a post for guiding new players:)
Another thing to mention perhaps is to not bother upgrading armor at all unless you know its a suit of armor you're going to be using for a while. I upgraded a bunch of armor to 10 or 15, seeing if they had + versions to unlock because I figured + versions would probably be more valuable for fusing. Also, once I had a suit of Atlantean+, I kept upgrading my monk robe i got from referral up to 20 or so before I realized I should probably stop that and focus on the Atlantean+. I have the Atlantean+ up to level 35 now but I stopped to work on getting more training grounds going and selling off the taverns, cathedrals, fountains, and guard towers.

Also early on don't combine armors together at first unless its part of a quest... from what I'm reading from others, you'll run out of fusing stones eventually and the gold it costs to combine you'd be better off putting into building up your gold-making buildings.

Now I only use the basic armors to upgrade suits I know i'm going to use later at earlier stages, like getting crius and hydra hunter suits I got to unlock the + versions, and if my armory fills up with those then I use them to raise a suit of armor my knights are using that's under level 20 (like steam wizard robe). Save your snakeskin armors for armor that is already above level 20.

Budd
05-06-2013, 11:04 AM
No problem, a friend request has been sent to you, happy hunting:)

wonderful, thank you.

hhm
05-06-2013, 11:53 AM
To Harvey and other experience players,

Just want to hear your analyzes and expertise on training buildings to see which one can get the best results.

Topic: Is training field really the BEST building to get for gold?

Crystal Conservatory (1 space)
L1 => 400 gold/ hr.
L2 => 500gold/ every 25 mins. (Let's just say 1,000 gold per hr)
Thus: 1,000 per hr (each spot)
Side note: I have 23 spots (but lets just say 22, for the sake of calculating with training fields) 22X1k gold= so minimum 22k gold per hr.

Training Field (with 2 spaces)
L1=> 1,167/ hr. Max 14,000 gold.
L3=> Roughly 2,000 gold/ hr.
Thus: 2,000 per hr (2 spots)
**Data found on your post in forum somewhere, couldnt find it. U wrote too many posts, but props to u.**
Note* (To get to L3, you need 20 gems per building. If you have 22 spaces, thats 220 gems.) It's could be an investment, I guess.


Monster Nest (1 space)
L1 => 750 gold/ hr. Max 1500 gold.
L2 => 500gold/ every 25 mins. Max
Thus: 1,000 per hr (each spot)

Question 1-Technically, isn't Crystal Conservatory or even Monster Nest a cheaper way to earn gold IF 1) you rather use yr gems to try yr luck for Black Chest item. 2) IF you collect gold all the time. Only disadvantage when you sleep, you only get maximum 450 gold or 1,500 gold for MN.

Q2- Don't those two (CC or MN) has better growth and a greater potential if you are going to spend gems to get them to L3? You'll earn gold a lot faster which compensate the amount of gold for the hrs you'll be sleeping. For sure the time you are up and playing the game will be much longer than the time u'll spend sleeping (lets say 8 hrs). I just sleep for 6 hrs, so it doesn't really bother me if I miss 6 hrs of gold.

I just want to hear what you guys think. so hit me. I'm sure you guys have more calculations than me.

Daemon
05-06-2013, 11:58 AM
you're right, training fields are not the fastest way to earn money. The reason we all use them is because they have the highest capacity with very good earning rates. If you're on your game all day then go with CC and MN but if you sleep, go to work, and do other things, then I think you'll find Training Fields will earn you the most money.

Just my opinion.


To Harvey and other experience players,

Just want to hear your analyzes and expertise on training buildings to see which one can get the best results.

Topic: Is training field really the BEST building to get for gold?

Crystal Conservatory (1 space)
L1 => 400 gold/ hr.
L2 => 500gold/ every 25 mins. (Let's just say 1,000 gold per hr)
Thus: 1,000 per hr (each spot)
Side note: I have 23 spots (but lets just say 22, for the sake of calculating with training fields) 22X1k gold= 22k gold per hr.

Training Field (with 2 spaces)
L1=> 1,167/ hr. Max 14,000 gold.
L3=> Roughly 2,000 gold/ hr.
Thus: 2,000 per hr (2 spots)
Note* (To get to L3, you need 20 gems per building. If you have 22 spaces, thats 220 gems.) It's could be an investment, I guess.
**Data found on your post in forum somewhere, couldnt find it. U wrote too many posts, but props to u.**

Monster Nest (1 space)
L1 => 750 gold/ hr. Max 1500 gold.
L2 => 500gold/ every 25 mins. Max
Thus: 1,000 per hr (each spot)

Question 1-Technically, isn't Crystal Conservatory or even Monster Nest a cheaper way to earn gold IF 1) you rather use yr gems to try yr luck for Black Chest item. 2) IF you collect gold all the time. Only disadvantage when you sleep, you only get maximum 450 gold or 1,500 gold for MN.

Q2- Don't those two (CC or MN) has better growth and a greater potential if you are going to spend gems to get them to L3? You'll earn gold a lot faster which compensate the amount of gold for the hrs you'll be sleeping. For sure the time you are up and playing the game will be much longer than the time u'll spend sleeping (lets say 8 hrs). I just sleep for 6 hrs, so it doesn't really bother me if I miss 6 hrs of gold.

I just want to hear what you guys think. so hit me. I'm sure you guys have more calculations than me.

Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 12:17 PM
Well, I have to say that since there are free gems offers, no matter what buildings you choose, you should eventually upgrade them to the top, just a matter of time. But the earlier you upgrade, the more golds you received earlier.

And for the calculation, actually we can directly compare to 2 sides buildings, ignore mid-range like crystal. And as I mentioned above, we should max out buildings, thus I only compare the TOP levels between buildings.

Crystal actually is the same amount quick money buildings like Fountain, max out them will give you 1,200 golds per hour.
The monster nest give you 1250 golds/hours, thus the monster nest is the fastest building.

Thus let's just calculate between Monster nest & training fields.

Monster nest, 1250 golds/ hours, suppose you only sleep 6 hours, the income would be 1250*18+2500=25,000 golds

Training fields, 2000 golds/hours, that's 1000 golds/hour/spot, thus 1000*24=24,000 golds, just 1,000 golds less than monster nest for each spot.

Consider the real situation that you cannot always staying with the game, there are many variety in our life, thus the training fields are always better choice. And for the cost of gems, training fields are much less than monster nest.

35 gems/2=17.5 gems/spots, 75000/2=35000golds for Training fields, 40 gems, 1150000 golds for Monster nest, thus you can see training fields are much cheaper.

Thus Training Field win.
To Harvey and other experience players,

Just want to hear your analyzes and expertise on training buildings to see which one can get the best results.

Topic: Is training field really the BEST building to get for gold?

Crystal Conservatory (1 space)
L1 => 400 gold/ hr.
L2 => 500gold/ every 25 mins. (Let's just say 1,000 gold per hr)
Thus: 1,000 per hr (each spot)
Side note: I have 23 spots (but lets just say 22, for the sake of calculating with training fields) 22X1k gold= so minimum 22k gold per hr.

Training Field (with 2 spaces)
L1=> 1,167/ hr. Max 14,000 gold.
L3=> Roughly 2,000 gold/ hr.
Thus: 2,000 per hr (2 spots)
**Data found on your post in forum somewhere, couldnt find it. U wrote too many posts, but props to u.**
Note* (To get to L3, you need 20 gems per building. If you have 22 spaces, thats 220 gems.) It's could be an investment, I guess.


Monster Nest (1 space)
L1 => 750 gold/ hr. Max 1500 gold.
L2 => 500gold/ every 25 mins. Max
Thus: 1,000 per hr (each spot)

Question 1-Technically, isn't Crystal Conservatory or even Monster Nest a cheaper way to earn gold IF 1) you rather use yr gems to try yr luck for Black Chest item. 2) IF you collect gold all the time. Only disadvantage when you sleep, you only get maximum 450 gold or 1,500 gold for MN.

Q2- Don't those two (CC or MN) has better growth and a greater potential if you are going to spend gems to get them to L3? You'll earn gold a lot faster which compensate the amount of gold for the hrs you'll be sleeping. For sure the time you are up and playing the game will be much longer than the time u'll spend sleeping (lets say 8 hrs). I just sleep for 6 hrs, so it doesn't really bother me if I miss 6 hrs of gold.

I just want to hear what you guys think. so hit me. I'm sure you guys have more calculations than me.

Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 12:18 PM
Hi bro, training fields just slightly less income than Monster nest, and consider real life situation, Training Fields better than monster nest.
you're right, training fields are not the fastest way to earn money. The reason we all use them is because they have the highest capacity with very good earning rates. If you're on your game all day then go with CC and MN but if you sleep, go to work, and do other things, then I think you'll find Training Fields will earn you the most money.

Just my opinion.

busteroaf
05-06-2013, 12:37 PM
*looks like the other couple covered this while I was typing out my life story below...*

I think with a lot of the gold "farming" or "what is best" issue, a lot of it plays out in the "if I step away from the game for 2 hours without logging in, do I lose money from these places which max out in an hour or two, vs the training field which will max out after what, 8? 12? Either way, you COULD sleep and not lose any money as long as you collected before you went to bed. With many of these others, sure, the generation is quick (think the fountain) but you constantly have to collect. When I'm farming for mats, I like to do the same thing over and over and over and over, with as little interruption as possible, that is just how my brain functions. But I also work anywhere from 8-12 hour shifts without the time to sit and log in and collect money. In those cases, the areas that have the longer generation times are better for me: Training grounds.

Also, you're only factoring in sleep time. What about: in class, working, eating, showering, watching tv, out drinking with buddies, working out... when you approach it like that, you sound as if you are playing the game non-stop 18/7 (as opposed to 24/7 since you said you only sleep for 6 hours) and in that case, more power to you, but that is far from casual.

So, for casual players, I think the training field is the best option.



This is my thought process on why I do a lot of things, and a little bit of life story:

I haven't done the math on this, nor do I really care, to be honest. Its a game to me, and supposed to be fun. Once things progress past the point that I have to work at it, research it, study it, crunch numbers to min/max things, it becomes... work. And I already have one job that takes 50-60 hours of my life every week, I don't need another that doesn't pay me. Games should be releases from stress, not "oh no, I'm at work and I can't collect my gold or fight the boss, I'm falling behind" To me, that isn't fun anymore. That is adding more stress. This is why I don't play WoW anymore, and only play free-to-play games. If I chose to spend money, or I think a publisher or designer did a great job, sure, I'll throw them some money. But I'm not working to play a game, or paying upfront to play a game, that isn't going to have a reward for me. My reward for years of playing WoW all hours of the night (and days on my days off)? A spare tire around my waist and about 40 extra pounds from when I started playing. I like disposable games. If I've invested money... even $15 a month for 3-5 years, that still adds up to around $500-$900... which is what I spent on WoW. And when I'm done, I don't get that back. Plus all the time I invested, that I could have done other things with... I wasted my life playing a game. When I say it like that, and sometimes slower: "I wasted my life playing a game" it sinks in a little better. I spent almost as much time playing a video game as I did working (and getting paid). Granted, I'm not knocking that lifestyle, there are millions of people that do it, but it isn't for me, at least not anymore.

Work paid me. I paid to play a game. Game became like work with schedules and time investments. Game didn't pay me back. Quits game. Walks away and moves to something else. <slow clap> </slow clap>

Again, this is all just my opinion.

Harvey Guo
05-06-2013, 12:41 PM
Yep, that's what I mention above of real lift situation, we cannot keep staying with the game.

We calculate strictly even there is a player keep playing and only sleep 6 hours, under this situation, monster nest just slightly win.

Thus from this result, we can see in the real life, Training Field is sure to win, and as you said, we do not need to worry about losing money, just do what we should do in our life, only need to collect twice a day, very simple.

I think with a lot of the gold "farming" or "what is best" issue, a lot of it plays out in the "if I step away from the game for 2 hours without logging in, do I lose money from these places which max out in an hour or two, vs the training field which will max out after what, 8? 12? Either way, you COULD sleep and not lose any money as long as you collected before you went to bed. With many of these others, sure, the generation is quick (think the fountain) but you constantly have to collect. When I'm farming for mats, I like to do the same thing over and over and over and over, with as little interruption as possible, that is just how my brain functions. But I also work anywhere from 8-12 hour shifts without the time to sit and log in and collect money. In those cases, the areas that have the longer generation times are better for me: Training grounds.

Also, you're only factoring in sleep time. What about: in class, working, eating, showering, watching tv, out drinking nwith buddies, working out... when you approach it like that, you sound as if you are playing the game non-stop 18/7 (as opposed to 24/7 since you said you only sleep for 6 hours) and in that case, more power to you, but that is far from casual.

So, for casual players, I think the training field is the best option.



This is my thought process on why I do a lot of things, and a little bit of life story:

I haven't done the math on this, nor do I really care, to be honest. Its a game to me, and supposed to be fun. Once things progress past the point that I have to work at it, research it, study it, crunch numbers to min/max things, it becomes... work. And I already have one job that takes 50-60 hours of my life every week, I don't need another that doesn't pay me. Games should be releases from stress, not "oh no, I'm at work and I can't collect my gold or fight the boss, I'm falling behind" To me, that isn't fun anymore. That is adding more stress. This is why I don't play WoW anymore, and only play free-to-play games. If I chose to spend money, or I think a publisher or designer did a great job, sure, I'll throw them some money. But I'm not working to play a game, or paying upfront to play a game, that isn't going to have a reward for me. My reward for years of playing WoW all hours of the night (and days on my days off)? A spare tire around my waist and about 40 extra pounds from when I started playing. I like disposable games. If I've invested money... even $15 a month for 3-5 years, that still adds up to around $500-$900... which is what I spent on WoW. And when I'm done, I don't get that back. Plus all the time I invested, that I could have done other things with... I wasted my life playing a game. When I say it like that, and sometimes slower: "I wasted my life playing a game" it sinks in a little better. I spent almost as much time playing a video game as I did working (and getting paid). Granted, I'm not knocking that lifestyle, there are millions of people that do it, but it isn't for me, at least not anymore.

Work paid me. I paid to play a game. Game became like work with schedules and time investments. Game didn't pay me back. Quits game. Walks away and moves to something else. <slow clap> </slow clap>

Again, this is all just my opinion.

Slevinn
05-06-2013, 01:02 PM
Yeah I guess, just sounds like an over-comiplicated rant in an attempt to relate. Players will eventually be forced to follow "plan b/+" once their health points take long than an hour to recharge. She has made quite the speculation, but all I really pulled out of this post was displeasure, and disappointment. I think if she simplified it with a little less agro, I or we may be able to sympathize her drama and disdain.

Ps. I too have maxed faerie nemisis mail, may I add you , my username is "bud?" we would make a great team.

I understand what you mean. Also I've send you a request.

edit: I think good ol' Harvey is a guy :3

Raistmar
05-06-2013, 02:30 PM
I was playing this game really casually at the beginning. So I just did things half ass and always looked for the quick fix. Which led to a lot of wasted time and resources. Then I found this forum and got enlightened by the people here.

Now I'm progressing along quite nicely.

Justice711
05-06-2013, 06:51 PM
Haha.. Finally something got sticky...

hhm
05-07-2013, 06:11 AM
Yeah, Gem wise. It would be much cheaper.

Leosimas
05-07-2013, 06:23 AM
The point is Harvey is trying to help new players.
Although, many people may agree or disagree, his strategy is very good.
For me, When I discovered that only the plus versions were efficient. I tried to reach boss 43, no matter what.
First mistake, my second I discovered when I didn't have all the money for the armor upgrades.
Now, I'm just waiting to reach 3M gold to buy the last two expansions.
The better part was the advise, to not rush in the game.
Thanks Harvey, for the advises, and for all the help in game during this last 4 weeks.

GCSpyder
05-07-2013, 07:34 AM
Well said, Busteroaf..

Howzee87
05-07-2013, 08:07 AM
Glad you understood where I was coming from Harvey, and that I meant no offence :-)

I think the worst part about the situation you're in (knowing the more efficient ways to gather gold, enhance armour, etc) is that even if the new players do read your tips they may not follow the advice. I can definitely see where your frustration comes from.
And from my own experience in other forums I know it's a pain when people sign up and ask a bunch of questions that have been answered a dozen times already - that if they read (even just the titles of) a few threads they would find the answers to so many of the questions they have.

As far as how I played - I was following the quests, not paying much attention to the armours I gained/enhanced. Then I got curious about what else there was so I signed up here. That's when i got a little more serious about it. Sold most buildings for training fields (kept a few spaces to complete the construction quest line) and started enhancing my armours, rather than focusing on leveling my knights.
While I'm not yet able to get to a + version boss armour, I got so close last week that I'm now saving gems to summon the Half-Dragon to get the last of the materials I need. I'm trying to fuse a Sky Guardian, and working my way towards the marsh for the swamp sharman.
In the mean time I'm going to keep killing bosses and enhancing the armours I have until I can reach the magic boss-level 43 :-P



BTW, I'm a man...Just use a Lovely girl's photo as my avatar:)

Thought Harvey was an odd name for a cute asian girl :-S

TScript
05-08-2013, 09:35 AM
Hello,

I just started playing 3 days ago, so thanks for the explanation on how to approach the armor. Also, I didn't find it rude at all. It clarified some confusion on how to approach the armor as a beginner. THANK YOU!

Justice711
05-08-2013, 09:51 AM
Great to see new player appreciative attitude :)