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SpikedPunchVictim
06-03-2013, 07:16 PM
I came across this article on Gamasutra, and it really hit home to how this game's economy is unfolding. I think this game has made decisions to undermine the player's equity without realizing it.

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130531/193353/The_Barrier_to_Big.php

It would be a good read for the developers too.

Dirt road Joe
06-03-2013, 07:31 PM
I came across this article on Gamasutra, and it really hit home to how this game's economy is unfolding. I think this game has made decisions to undermine the player's equity without realizing it.

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130531/193353/The_Barrier_to_Big.php

It would be a good read for the developers too.

This is exactly what needs to be seen. The most recent game I saw "collapse" was Borderlands 2 on the Xbox. There is a weapon system on there like common, uncommon and rare. So there were many players that played hours and hours to get the rare weapons that no one had. They worked hard and got rewarded for it. Suddenly one day there was a glitch that allowed players to duplicate weapons. So all the rare weapons turned into nothing with a matter of just a few weeks. It took the developers a few weeks to finally put a patch out for it and by that time it was too late. The game still exists and there are many players that play it daily. But it is nothing like it could have been if they would have been able to fix the exploits sooner.

Ratma2001
06-03-2013, 09:18 PM
I came across this article on Gamasutra, and it really hit home to how this game's economy is unfolding. I think this game has made decisions to undermine the player's equity without realizing it.

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130531/193353/The_Barrier_to_Big.php

It would be a good read for the developers too.

Very interesting article, The powers that be can learn alot here if they applied themselves.
Interesting on the Equity investment losses as it could have been avoided trying to become BIG, this sound simillar to another game (i wonder)

The_Legend_Shall_Live_On
06-04-2013, 09:13 AM
Quite a different look at this type of game, and makes sense from the perspective of not only the gamer, but from the company of retention of players.

How would you go about this type of transition with a game such as Kingdom Age? While it is pretty easy to stop some snow from falling, once the avalanche has started, you have to wait until the dust settles before you do anything else.

Skyraiders
06-04-2013, 11:19 AM
wow talk about hitting the nail..square on the head. How many players spent months on getting Dragons...only for the new players to get BBR, increased vault and other things that made this game strategically great. Dragons are worthless at this point. This was a good article......and it hits home for sure....how many games have you played in your life that work this way......almost all of them......somewhere along the line you will upgrade in the game therefore making previous itens, armor, weapons useless.

With all that being said we are certainly seeing the same kind of effects in KA. Its a good post! Thanks for sharing!

Zenobia
06-04-2013, 04:35 PM
Great read; thanks for posting, SpikedPunchVictim.

It seems every single move Gree makes to the game these days has the result of totaly undermining the equity of long-term strategic players.

The complete devaluation of dragons is, as Skyraiders brought up, one of the biggest examples. And not just because I will be retiring my last hard-won dragon shortly (on my defensive side, they have, alas, already been rendered obsolete, but a couple hundred still find use in my attacks). The BBR replacing it would not be nearly so big a deal IF (and note the size of that "if" - it's a BIG IF!) IF one had to actually go overvault to gain the ability to make BBRs.

The challenge of going overvault, for multiple days no less, to get one's BD 8, 9, and 10... the forethought that had to be put into it. from building up one's defenses enough to narrow the pool of would-be attackers, to preparing maps with nearly dead bosses to finish off the last minute, to timing one's manors to collect then sell at the proper time, to the politics of convincing attackers to stop attacking you when you are overvault, etc., etc., etc. THOSE things made my dragons valuable. Now they are on the curb with a (slightly charred) "Free - take me!" sign. It makes me very sad. Now players can not only get better units, but more importantly they can do so with NO RISK NOR STRATEGY WHATSOEVER to get them.

Of all the changes to the game that undermine our equity, to me, the raising of the vault limit is by FAR the worst.

Rastlin
06-04-2013, 06:02 PM
wow talk about hitting the nail..square on the head. How many players spent months on getting Dragons...only for the new players to get BBR, increased vault and other things that made this game strategically great. Dragons are worthless at this point. This was a good article......and it hits home for sure....how many games have you played in your life that work this way......almost all of them......somewhere along the line you will upgrade in the game therefore making previous itens, armor, weapons useless.

With all that being said we are certainly seeing the same kind of effects in KA. Its a good post! Thanks for sharing!
+100 Dragons, vault, all gone...

Ratma2001
06-04-2013, 06:18 PM
Great read; thanks for posting, SpikedPunchVictim.

It seems every single move Gree makes to the game these days has the result of totaly undermining the equity of long-term strategic players.

The complete devaluation of dragons is, as Skyraiders brought up, one of the biggest examples. And not just because I will be retiring my last hard-won dragon shortly (on my defensive side, they have, alas, already been rendered obsolete, but a couple hundred still find use in my attacks). The BBR replacing it would not be nearly so big a deal IF (and note the size of that "if" - it's a BIG IF!) IF one had to actually go overvault to gain the ability to make BBRs.

The challenge of going overvault, for multiple days no less, to get one's BD 8, 9, and 10... the forethought that had to be put into it. from building up one's defenses enough to narrow the pool of would-be attackers, to preparing maps with nearly dead bosses to finish off the last minute, to timing one's manors to collect then sell at the proper time, to the politics of convincing attackers to stop attacking you when you are overvault, etc., etc., etc. THOSE things made my dragons valuable. Now they are on the curb with a (slightly charred) "Free - take me!" sign. It makes me very sad. Now players can not only get better units, but more importantly they can do so with NO RISK NOR STRATEGY WHATSOEVER to get them.

Of all the changes to the game that undermine our equity, to me, the raising of the vault limit is by FAR the worst.

True on all aspect of this Zenobia, Its a pity that new player dont get the chance to "REALLY" play the game as intended, its all too easy now just throw money at it and get what you need nothing like the "OLD DOG" system working on these (at that point in time) BD runs and working your butt off to save every penny ! no challenge ! a bitterly big dissapointment ! and such a BIG waste of everyones time and effort !, How the Mighty Dragoons have fallen to the wayside ! No need to increase IPH to help ! No overvault as you say, just do LTQ's/Box spend money and youre done !
now If Gree had any sense they would take a step back and LOOK at the whole "Stratergy" play , they would bring it back to keep the regular spenders, not just a flash in the pan players throwing nickle and dimes.

SpikedPunchVictim
06-04-2013, 06:40 PM
Even if Gree hadn't made the changes to the vault or devalued dragons, at the end of the day, the people who spend more money ultimately rank higher. This by itself already undermines the player's equity in the game. If people can buy what other players work so hard for, then it's already devalued. This is a common theme among games in the Asian market. You can see how much a Western audience struggles with this. It's akin to the AH in Diablo 3, where a player can spend real money for items. It devalues that sense of satisfaction players get from working hard to get those items.

What I've noticed is that for games like these in the Western audience, they tend to have a lower CCU (concurrent users) then games without this mentality (World of Tanks, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, Path of Exile, etc)

Kusa
06-05-2013, 06:05 AM
Don't get me wrong but last I seen world of Warcraft is paid to play.
Wot you can buy your stuff with real cash last I checked.
Not played the other 2

Why do I feel like I am reading a borderlands Thread oh I know why every other line someone is saying vault lol.

The dragon unit had to be retired eventually.
I could see the point in raising vault if they released new buildings.
I mainly just hate the pay to win attitude the game has gone now.

Mickeytah
06-05-2013, 10:55 AM
Personally, I think the addition of the Scratch Offs was the turning point.

LordB
06-05-2013, 11:36 AM
Gree know exactly what they are doing. Funzio made a game with "equity" that would slow burn, and gree are turning it into a short term cash generator. They have shortened its life massively (time to the servers being shut down is now a few months more than a few years) but they are trying to protect short term earnings after the Japanese court case about their illegal pricing policies wiped out nearly half their share price.

They are inflating stats. People who previously had high stats have to spend money to protect their position, as what they had is devalued. Then next round it repeats, and they have to spend more money. Eventually the tipping point is reached and enough people quit that the game collapses.

It's already started. And I'm out. Leaving 70,000 gems behind :-)

Byeeeeeeeee!

LordB
06-05-2013, 11:37 AM
A few months _rather_ than a few years

See you on Battle Nations!

Skyraiders
06-05-2013, 12:41 PM
A few months _rather_ than a few years

See you on Battle Nations!

LOL already there brother....LOL

LoveAndPeace
06-05-2013, 04:08 PM
Really hot stuff
Thanks for sharing !!
I couldnt stop reading even thé answers this persian pro
Gave in thé comments section..

And Zenobia, unfortunately your right, they completely took
out thé thrill :(

Sir Ventes
06-05-2013, 08:56 PM
Thanks for the info
For me, this is my turning point.... crazy Gree Math!!! This game is supposed to be about strategy and strategic decisions but that is now completely gone. Putting hacking aside, which makes many choices pointless now, for me it is now about the crazy Gree math. Examples...I had six buildings successfully raided by a player with 650k att and I have 1.2m def. Also, you hit a player during war four consecutive times and get a CP range of 200's to 400's. how is this possible? How does this math work? I understand to some degree variables and randomness but come on!!! Defense buildings and LTQ and guild bonuses do not explain a 650k Att beating a 1.2m def especially when I know I have most of the possible bonuses from my 'strategic' game play decisions and gem spends.

Scarlet Heart
06-05-2013, 09:49 PM
Me...I've gone back to PC games where I earn money for playing & winning rather than pay. ;)

Zenobia
06-05-2013, 09:53 PM
Thanks for the info
For me, this is my turning point.... crazy Gree Math!!! ...I had six buildings successfully raided by a player with 650k att and I have 1.2m def.
This keeps happening to me too. I don't know if the low-attack players who beat those of us with hundreds of thousands higher defense are hacking skill points or if Gree's raid math is wacko (or both), but either way it's f-ed up. One ought to be allowed to defend oneself against a much lesser player.

Ratma2001
06-05-2013, 09:58 PM
This keeps happening to me too. I don't know if the low-attack players who beat those of us with hundreds of thousands higher defense are hacking skill points or if Gree's raid math is wacko (or both), but either way it's f-ed up. One ought to be allowed to defend oneself against a much lesser player.

Gree dropping the ball and loosing sight of the little things that make the big things, not the big things that seem small !
Equity for all the level 200's with high stats are about to have the tables turned on them unlike before when you wouldnt even chance a hit at someone with 5K stats higher than yourself now you can do it with a BIG difference of 500K stats !
Equity has been lost on all facets of this game and now its all about re-couping the market share loss , due to wrong direction. so sad for KA

Sir Ventes
06-05-2013, 10:13 PM
Couldn't agree more Ratma and Zenobia. My main point is, KA was initially designed for strategic play and that is what we were all attracted to. Now there are no strategic plays and all equity is lost....and so is my passion for the game. Now I just click from time to time, no gem spend and looking for other good games so any suggestions?

SpikedPunchVictim
06-06-2013, 12:01 AM
Couldn't agree more Ratma and Zenobia. My main point is, KA was initially designed for strategic play and that is what we were all attracted to. Now there are no strategic plays and all equity is lost....and so is my passion for the game. Now I just click from time to time, no gem spend and looking for other good games so any suggestions?

If you like CCG's, Scrolls (https://scrolls.com/) just went beta (from the creator of Minecraft). For others:
- Puzzle and Dragons on mobile
- Neverwinter (F2P MMO)
- Path of Exile (F2P, and VERY well made game. It's a better version of Diablo II)
- Any of the F2P MOBAs (League of Legends, DOTA 2, Dawngate, etc)
- Secret World MMO ($30, no monthly fee)

I could name more, but this should get you started. They all have active forums with developers communicating on a daily basis who appreciate their players.

Sir Ventes
06-06-2013, 04:59 AM
Thanks SpikedPunchVictim. hopefully they don't fall into the equity trap

SpikedPunchVictim
06-06-2013, 02:47 PM
Of the ones I mentioned, only Neverwinter falls into that trap. It's still fun for a bit though, and you can easily play for free.