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johnny boy phd
06-12-2013, 11:25 AM
Following great info posted by Deuces {PFJ} on the current LTQ event, I decided to perform a few analyses:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/9027564564_cd6577a8e1.jpg

(1) In the table above, it is listed the loot yielded by this LTQ (up to current info). Because I am a boss killer under lvl 75, I am extremely conscious about xp gain. As one can see, the att/xp ratios start out pretty good (above 1), but rapidly decrease to below the average 0.5 att/xp. Note that prizes at these early levels will be mostly irrelevant on the end game though. This time around I settled for lvl 11 with the demolition kit (explosive with 92 att).

(2) The total xp gained for completing normal is 13165 xp. The total attack increase is 6974. The overall ratio for normal is 0.53 att/xp. Note that if you fall short of the final prize of normal just by one level, you'll have a ratio of 0.42 att/xp. Only the last level of the LTQ (either normal or elite) with the final prize, the ratio is dramatically increased (to around 2 att/xp) and will make the entire event pay off. Therefore, one might conclude that it is only worth to pursue the LTQ if one is able to go all the way.

(3) In contrast, boss events are completely different. Killing 50 bosses earns 6625 xp (computed with 10 xp at lvl 1 and 5 xp increases henceforth). The current boss event has 3 grand prizes for a total of 6741/6599. Moreover, there are 50 extra prizes. Assuming an average of 100 (split among lots of commons, several uncommons, and few rares), that factors in with 5000 more. Thus, the rate of stat gain per xp earned with a successful boss killing is 1.78 att/xp, with some luck associated to the random draws of 50 prizes maybe up to 2 att/xp. Even if you fall short of a final prize, it's still an acceptable deal and you'll have a better shot next time if you stay in the same tier.

(4) Lastly, there's the gold usage. I am able to kill bosses for free, I dont need to use gold to go all the way. If you play slowly and are patient, you can do it. Now, normal of the current LTQ costs 40,000 energy to complete. At a regeneration of 3 per minute, that corresponds to 13,333 min = 222.2 hr = 9.26 days. I can factor in maybe 2 or 3 level ups with free energy coming from there, but that's at most a discount of maybe 6,000 energy.

Conclusion: it is impossible to complete the LTQ (even normal) without gold if you dont have insane energy regeneration bonuses and pre-hit the maps extensively (note that pre-hitting doesnt save you xp, though)
Conclusion #2: if you are not going all the way, it is better to just go a few normal levels and then lay off.
Conclusion #3: never before had Crime City an event solely for gold spending (i.e. on which free play is not strategically smart and a rational non-gold spender will not play them at all).
Conclusion #4: even if you spend gold and go all the way to elite, I am not that sure about its true benefit, gold effectiveness, and xp earn.

c00guy
06-12-2013, 11:41 AM
Following great info posted by Deuces {PFJ} on the current LTQ event, I decided to perform a few analyses:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/9027564564_cd6577a8e1.jpg

(1) In the table above, it is listed the loot yielded by this LTQ (up to current info). Because I am a boss killer under lvl 75, I am extremely conscious about xp gain. As one can see, the att/xp ratios start out pretty good (above 1), but rapidly decrease to below the average 0.5 att/xp. Note that prizes at these early levels will be mostly irrelevant on the end game though. This time around I settled for lvl 11 with the demolition kit (explosive with 92 att).

(2) The total xp gained for completing normal is 13165 xp. The total attack increase is 6974. The overall ratio for normal is 0.53 att/xp. Note that if you fall short of the final prize of normal just by one level, you'll have a ratio of 0.42 att/xp. Only the last level of the LTQ (either normal or elite) with the final prize, the ratio is dramatically increased (to around 2 att/xp) and will make the entire event pay off. Therefore, one might conclude that it is only worth to pursue the LTQ if one is able to go all the way.

(3) In contrast, boss events are completely different. Killing 50 bosses earns 6625 xp (computed with 10 xp at lvl 1 and 5 xp increases henceforth). The current boss event has 3 grand prizes for a total of 6741/6599. Moreover, there are 50 extra prizes. Assuming an average of 100 (split among lots of commons, several uncommons, and few rares), that factors in with 5000 more. Thus, the rate of stat gain per xp earned with a successful boss killing is 1.78 att/xp, with some luck associated to the random draws of 50 prizes maybe up to 2 att/xp. Even if you fall short of a final prize, it's still an acceptable deal and you'll have a better shot next time if you stay in the same tier.

(4) Lastly, there's the gold usage. I am able to kill bosses for free, I dont need to use gold to go all the way. If you play slowly and are patient, you can do it. Now, normal of the current LTQ costs 40,000 energy to complete. At a regeneration of 3 per minute, that corresponds to 13,333 min = 222.2 hr = 9.26 days. I can factor in maybe 2 or 3 level ups with free energy coming from there, but that's at most a discount of maybe 6,000 energy.

Conclusion: it is impossible to complete the LTQ (even normal) without gold if you dont have insane energy regeneration bonuses and pre-hit the maps extensively (note that pre-hitting doesnt save you xp, though)
Conclusion #2: if you are not going all the way, it is better to just go a few normal levels and then lay off.
Conclusion #3: never before had Crime City an event solely for gold spending (i.e. on which free play is not strategically smart and a rational non-gold spender will not play them at all).
Conclusion #4: even if you spend gold and go all the way to elite, I am not that sure about its true benefit, gold effectiveness, and xp earn.

Nice analysis johnny boy. In a nutshell for everyone, LTQ events are crap! No matter what your level is and no matter whether you're gold or non-gold. Spend your XP and gold on other events!!

The Fonz
06-12-2013, 11:50 AM
Pretty good analysis. Having never attempted an LTQ before, I gave this one an initial go, but soon realized (after acquiring the Long Barrel Shotgun) that the XP gains relative to the A/D stats from the prizes weren't worth the time or effort, so I stopped.

maraudermat
06-12-2013, 12:23 PM
The hit List was a great LTQ. It required a mixture of jobs, attacks and robberies and actually required some effort from the player to get the best bonuses.

Then they scrapped that great idea and went for a gold spending only event. Poor show Gree!

Bala82
06-12-2013, 12:27 PM
The hit List was a great LTQ. It required a mixture of jobs, attacks and robberies and actually required some effort from the player to get the best bonuses.

Then they scrapped that great idea and went for a gold spending only event. Poor show Gree!

That because everyone complained it was ridiculous rob certain buildings.

maraudermat
06-12-2013, 12:33 PM
That because everyone complained it was ridiculous rob certain buildings.
For all the complaining... there were still quite a lot of people who completed it. It shouldn't be ridiculously easy to do these events. There should be some form of a challenge to get the best prize. That was the first and only event that demonstrated that.

Butt Futter
06-12-2013, 12:59 PM
That event was awful. It took playing hours straight looking for low level buildings that no one has anymore. I hope they never do that style again.

JoJo1234
06-12-2013, 01:04 PM
Must admit I concur with many peoples thoughts on this, the format of this particular LTQ is extremely boring. Same jobs, same maps and same amount of gold needing to be used to complete even the normal levels.
I was hoping for a PVP this time out, even the one Gree had before, beat certain amount of people, rob certain buildings etc.. yes it was frustrating at times looking for buildings to rob but at least it was a little bit fun. Going as far as I can with normal energy on this one and not using any gold at all, sorry Gree, you have been improving of late but using exactly the same format and jobs for numerous LTQ's is not good enough and is very lazy.

$Heisenberg$
06-12-2013, 01:12 PM
For all the complaining... there were still quite a lot of people who completed it. It shouldn't be ridiculously easy to do these events. There should be some form of a challenge to get the best prize. That was the first and only event that demonstrated that.

agreeeeed!

Bala82
06-12-2013, 01:15 PM
If you want them to change LTQ than stop using gold for these events as long majority of player use gold they keep doing it. We as player need to send a message to Gree.

CitrineMondeoRSi
06-12-2013, 02:24 PM
Johnny Boy this is an excellent table and a great reference. Please do one for every LTQ henceforth.

GravyTrain
06-12-2013, 02:49 PM
I was thinking the same just didn't do the math and stopped at level 12 in event. Now on boss 40 and will finish her off. I am at level 48, 55 attack/59 defense

Coldjoey
06-12-2013, 03:13 PM
I GREAT thread, I came to the same conclusion and its nice to have it confirmed. Boss events suck for high levels, TLQ suck for campers. Boss events are great for Campers,, TLQ are great for high levels. GREE got the balance right, just can't please everyone all the time. Can't please Bala ever.

Armalg-the-Good
06-12-2013, 03:15 PM
They could always just make the "off levels" a combination of robbery and pk without being specific. That would earn bricks at least and be a lot more fun.

kingofwale
06-12-2013, 03:19 PM
I cannot possible understand why anybody would think forcing people to find a Pawn Shop/House to be a "Good event".

Absolutely senseless especially for those earlier buildings. What am I going to do at lvl 188?? Who kept those?

Don't like this event?? Well, at least you aren't searching aiminglessly

Deadwater
06-12-2013, 03:58 PM
I cannot possible understand why anybody would think forcing people to find a Pawn Shop/House to be a "Good event".

Absolutely senseless especially for those earlier buildings. What am I going to do at lvl 188?? Who kept those?

Don't like this event?? Well, at least you aren't searching aiminglessly

That's dumb, I see hoods with all needed buildings from that first LTQ at lvl 186. With the PVP it allowed us to regen our energy while still completing goals. It wasn't all that bad, plus as stated before it also meant it didn't mean how much gold someone had they may not complete the LTQ if they couldn't find a gun shop....I like the sounds of that

kingofwale
06-12-2013, 04:12 PM
That's dumb, I see hoods with all needed buildings from that first LTQ at lvl 186. With the PVP it allowed us to regen our energy while still completing goals. It wasn't all that bad, plus as stated before it also meant it didn't mean how much gold someone had they may not complete the LTQ if they couldn't find a gun shop....I like the sounds of that

Gree must've loved to hear that. ;)

I don't want to discourage people from spending gold, There absolutely no reason why people need to go around looking for an rare building (I just found and robbed first casino today... ever). It doesn't make user happy, it doesn't Gree happy.

What's next?? Looking for an avatar with black bra and white pants??


I don't mind a PVP + PVE combo LTQ. that'd be cool, but absolutely no more treasure hunting

mxz
06-12-2013, 04:14 PM
I GREAT thread, I came to the same conclusion and its nice to have it confirmed. Boss events suck for high levels, TLQ suck for campers. Boss events are great for Campers,, TLQ are great for high levels. GREE got the balance right, just can't please everyone all the time. Can't please Bala ever.Hahahaha, well said. Well, other than the spelling ;)

Coconut
06-12-2013, 07:08 PM
That event was awful. It took playing hours straight looking for low level buildings that no one has anymore. I hope they never do that style again.
100% right ! Agree with you

TZora
06-12-2013, 07:08 PM
GREE got the balance right, just can't please everyone all the time.
true that. no matter what gree does, people will always complain. gree will always bend towards gold spending. people will always try to bend towards free with better weapons. the show will go on :)

SaltineSam
06-12-2013, 08:05 PM
So the thread basically says boss events are better than ltq events? I find that reasoning doesn't work with my player. I barely go up 1 or 2 lvl s on LTQ, and total stat increase for gold used is better than anything else I have tried. And whatever complaints people have about LTQ's, I can match you about boss events. What's so fair about a low level player being able to defeat boss 50 times, basically using free hits? Where is challenge in that. I hit boss for over 300k a cash hit, and barely go over 20 victories. And the gold it costs me to complete boss event is insane, so where is the comparison? So far, on 26 wins, I've recieved 1 rare, 1 uncommon! Have you factored that in your equations? Seems more like another no gold vs gold debate. But I can tell you for fact, that non gold players at a high level, hate boss events more than anybody. So just because your player is on low level, and can defeat boss event easily, doesn't mean that it's better for me. I'm on high level, and I can do LTQ's with ease, so unless your numbers factor in all players on every level, you can't say that boss events are better than LTQ events.

crash&burn
06-12-2013, 08:39 PM
The hit List was a great LTQ. It required a mixture of jobs, attacks and robberies and actually required some effort from the player to get the best bonuses.

Then they scrapped that great idea and went for a gold spending only event. Poor show Gree!agreed i also enjoyed the hit list.lookin for the certain building to rob was very fun....no more hunting...just price per pound....gold..gold..gold....did i say gold

murf
06-12-2013, 08:41 PM
While I clearly agree that Boss events are better then LTQs, I don't get the obsession with maximizing every last XP to the penny...

I'm not saying to waste your XP, but if you only participate in events and are in a top250-500 syndicate, you will always be in the top 1-2% at your level and to me, it will make the game a little more enjoyable too....

SaltineSam
06-12-2013, 09:02 PM
The thread basically states that the stat increase to experience gained ratio of boss events is better than ltq event. Bravo! I applaud you and your mathematical wizardry! This is great for campers, and players who are so concerned and go crazy every time they go up a single level. How about for players like me? I don't give a crap about exp., or going up levels! When these campers are in battle events with there syndicates, do they hold back on getting wins because of gaining exp. and leveling up? I would hate to have players like that on my team. What I would love to see, is these mathematicians break down stat gain vs gold spent ratio. Now that I would find helpful. Here's my contribution to your numbers: LTQ- 2960 gold,+36k att. Boss event- probably over 6k gold, +10-20k att. That's what a buddy of mine spent to finish boss event on my level. Also slightly stronger than me. So please do that number thing you do, and then tell me how boss events are way better for gold users.

Intrance
06-12-2013, 09:19 PM
I don't think this thread is meant to include high lvs who don't care about exp. Its just an evaluation useful for those still at low lv and want to conserve exp. There is no need for high lvs to get heated

c00guy
06-12-2013, 09:53 PM
The thread basically states that the stat increase to experience gained ratio of boss events is better than ltq event. Bravo! I applaud you and your mathematical wizardry! This is great for campers, and players who are so concerned and go crazy every time they go up a single level. How about for players like me? I don't give a crap about exp., or going up levels! When these campers are in battle events with there syndicates, do they hold back on getting wins because of gaining exp. and leveling up? I would hate to have players like that on my team. What I would love to see, is these mathematicians break down stat gain vs gold spent ratio. Now that I would find helpful. Here's my contribution to your numbers: LTQ- 2960 gold,+36k att. Boss event- probably over 6k gold, +20-25k att. That's what a buddy of mine spent to finish boss event on my level. Also slightly stronger than me. So please do that number thing you do, and then tell me how boss events are way better for gold users.

If your buddy did this math from the very beginning, he wouldn't have had to spend that crazy gold on boss and would have cruised. Dumb decisions in the beginning led to forced dumb decisions in the end. Too bad

murf
06-12-2013, 10:00 PM
I don't think this thread is meant to include high lvs who don't care about exp. Its just an evaluation useful for those still at low lv and want to conserve exp. There is no need for high lvs to get heated

I have multiple accounts...a L229, L90 and L8...so I think I can speak for each level.

johnny boy phd
06-12-2013, 10:45 PM
What I would love to see, is these mathematicians break down stat gain vs gold spent ratio. Now that I would find helpful. Here's my contribution to your numbers: LTQ- 2960 gold,+36k att. Boss event- probably over 6k gold, +20-25k att.

Just for you, a little bit of my mathematical wizardry... My ratios of attack stat gain vs gold spent are:

- current boss event: 12,000 plus for zero gold, ratio: plus infinity
- current LTQ: 277 for zero gold too, ratio: plus infinity

beat that! #smug (woohoo, my first ever hashtag smug)

Poor D
06-12-2013, 11:30 PM
That event was awful. It took playing hours straight looking for low level buildings that no one has anymore. I hope they never do that style again.

I support this message.

Poor D
06-12-2013, 11:33 PM
If your buddy did this math from the very beginning, he wouldn't have had to spend that crazy gold on boss and would have cruised. Dumb decisions in the beginning led to forced dumb decisions in the end. Too bad

Too some camping is boring. The game design encourages camping but it is not a "dumb decision" to not camp. Just my opinion.

Poor D
06-12-2013, 11:35 PM
While I clearly agree that Boss events are better then LTQs, I don't get the obsession with maximizing every last XP to the penny...

I'm not saying to waste your XP, but if you only participate in events and are in a top250-500 syndicate, you will always be in the top 1-2% at your level and to me, it will make the game a little more enjoyable too....

From your sig, looks like you have one account where you just play for fun and another that is kinda camperish. Good idea.

Feng1234
06-13-2013, 02:54 AM
Following great info posted by Deuces {PFJ} on the current LTQ event, I decided to perform a few analyses:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/9027564564_cd6577a8e1.jpg

(1) In the table above, it is listed the loot yielded by this LTQ (up to current info). Because I am a boss killer under lvl 75, I am extremely conscious about xp gain. As one can see, the att/xp ratios start out pretty good (above 1), but rapidly decrease to below the average 0.5 att/xp. Note that prizes at these early levels will be mostly irrelevant on the end game though. This time around I settled for lvl 11 with the demolition kit (explosive with 92 att).

(2) The total xp gained for completing normal is 13165 xp. The total attack increase is 6974. The overall ratio for normal is 0.53 att/xp. Note that if you fall short of the final prize of normal just by one level, you'll have a ratio of 0.42 att/xp. Only the last level of the LTQ (either normal or elite) with the final prize, the ratio is dramatically increased (to around 2 att/xp) and will make the entire event pay off. Therefore, one might conclude that it is only worth to pursue the LTQ if one is able to go all the way.

(3) In contrast, boss events are completely different. Killing 50 bosses earns 6625 xp (computed with 10 xp at lvl 1 and 5 xp increases henceforth). The current boss event has 3 grand prizes for a total of 6741/6599. Moreover, there are 50 extra prizes. Assuming an average of 100 (split among lots of commons, several uncommons, and few rares), that factors in with 5000 more. Thus, the rate of stat gain per xp earned with a successful boss killing is 1.78 att/xp, with some luck associated to the random draws of 50 prizes maybe up to 2 att/xp. Even if you fall short of a final prize, it's still an acceptable deal and you'll have a better shot next time if you stay in the same tier.

(4) Lastly, there's the gold usage. I am able to kill bosses for free, I dont need to use gold to go all the way. If you play slowly and are patient, you can do it. Now, normal of the current LTQ costs 40,000 energy to complete. At a regeneration of 3 per minute, that corresponds to 13,333 min = 222.2 hr = 9.26 days. I can factor in maybe 2 or 3 level ups with free energy coming from there, but that's at most a discount of maybe 6,000 energy.

Conclusion: it is impossible to complete the LTQ (even normal) without gold if you dont have insane energy regeneration bonuses and pre-hit the maps extensively (note that pre-hitting doesnt save you xp, though)
Conclusion #2: if you are not going all the way, it is better to just go a few normal levels and then lay off.
Conclusion #3: never before had Crime City an event solely for gold spending (i.e. on which free play is not strategically smart and a rational non-gold spender will not play them at all).
Conclusion #4: even if you spend gold and go all the way to elite, I am not that sure about its true benefit, gold effectiveness, and xp earn.

Lol what about the X factor of having fun? You will quit before you can rationalise every aspect of the game. LTQs are fun so enjoy them!

Zepson
06-13-2013, 06:16 AM
But what if you camp on a low level and you don't do LTE and Boss events, how do you get your attack/defense up? Just by bying equipment in the store? Than this will become the most boring game ever.

SaltineSam
06-13-2013, 06:24 AM
Just for you, a little bit of my mathematical wizardry... My ratios of attack stat gain vs gold spent are:

- current boss event: 12,000 plus for zero gold, ratio: plus infinity
- current LTQ: 277 for zero gold too, ratio: plus infinity

beat that! #smug (woohoo, my first ever hashtag smug)

That's exactly my point. This is just another thread on what benefits players who don't spend gold. So you can't say boss events are better than ltq. I'm sure they are for you, but definitely not for me. Hey, math wizard, post everything else you get for free and celebrate! Beat that? Don't have to, I'm sure my player will beat you for me.

SaltineSam
06-13-2013, 06:34 AM
If your buddy did this math from the very beginning, he wouldn't have had to spend that crazy gold on boss and would have cruised. Dumb decisions in the beginning led to forced dumb decisions in the end. Too bad

Actually, when you have over 200k gold in your account, nothing you do is DUMB! Only having fun, and playing a game.

MattThomas08
06-13-2013, 06:59 AM
That's exactly my point. This is just another thread on what benefits players who don't spend gold. So you can't say boss events are better than ltq. I'm sure they are for you, but definitely not for me. Hey, math wizard, post everything else you get for free and celebrate! Beat that? Don't have to, I'm sure my player will beat you for me.

So go read a different thread which is targeted at players like yourself. There are different ways to play the game. This thread helps those who are choosing the camper path.

Max Power
06-13-2013, 07:21 AM
As stated rather crassly, this analysis is great for low to medium level players who don't want to level up. That is only one kind of player, and that player isn't me.

The opposite is true for me.

murf
06-13-2013, 08:42 AM
From your sig, looks like you have one account where you just play for fun and another that is kinda camperish. Good idea.

I recently started a 3rd account, which is pure camper...I should add that one to my sig...

The Fonz
06-13-2013, 10:51 AM
I recently started a 3rd account, which is pure camper...I should add that one to my sig...
I'm contemplating doing the same. I learned quite a bit in the past couple of months just reading the forums, and I'd like to apply those strategies to someone fresh, to ensure that I can maximize both my A/D stats, as well as IPH, from the get-go.

c00guy
06-13-2013, 10:57 AM
Actually, when you have over 200k gold in your account, nothing you do is DUMB! Only having fun, and playing a game.
200k gold eh? What are you a gold hacker?

The Ninja
06-13-2013, 11:24 AM
200k gold eh? What are you a gold hacker?
thats like 4000 worth of gold if not

TenderPlacebo
06-13-2013, 12:28 PM
You would be surprised at what some spend on the game!!
They don't have a gold bonus program where you can spend up to $10k for nothing, it's because people spend that much.
Spending $10k gets you 250k bonus gold. I can guarantee there are more then a few players that have well over 200k gold on hand and they bought it. These type of players have spent millions of gold bars.

It's all relative to what you make in life!! Some may consider that to be an insane amount to spend on an app, to others it's pocket money.

Anyways, minus the XP, LTQ's are the best stat to gold ratio you can get, with the exception of being in a top syndicate. If you're in a syndicate where the whole team does their part(equal IP across the board), you can get a 30-50k stat gain for a little over 2 vaults.
To spend a little over a vault on an LTQ to get 20-25k stat increase is pretty good when compared to store and limited items. This is an extremely good deal if you compare that ratio to what limited, case events and crate item stats used to be for the gold.
Heck, for a long time you could spend 900 gold just to get an item with 300/200 stats.

The only thing a high level player should be worried about with LTQ's and XP is leveling to the point where it will cost a lot more gold to put up good IP, but I don't think IP really drops off until you go over level 200.

SaltineSam
06-13-2013, 01:27 PM
200k gold eh? What are you a gold hacker?

Wow! Pretty ignorant thing to say. Guess what! YOUR WRONG!


So go read a different thread which is targeted at players like yourself. There are different ways to play the game. This thread helps those who are choosing the camper path.

Thank you. I agree completely. I didn't intend to post on this thread, since its for "poor man", but some CooGuy fellow, adamantly told me I was wrong for saying, that I got best value for gold from ltq. So I was asking for explanation why he said that. Like I said from beginning, I'm sure for low level players, boss events are great. But for those players to complain about the LTQ's, is just ridiculous. Seems like everybody expects for events to be free, and only for their benefit. Otherwise it sucks, and lets all complain about it.

SaltineSam
06-13-2013, 01:29 PM
You would be surprised at what some spend on the game!!
They don't have a gold bonus program where you can spend up to $10k for nothing, it's because people spend that much.
Spending $10k gets you 250k bonus gold. I can guarantee there are more then a few players that have well over 200k gold on hand and they bought it. These type of players have spent millions of gold bars.

It's all relative to what you make in life!! Some may consider that to be an insane amount to spend on an app, to others it's pocket money.

Anyways, minus the XP, LTQ's are the best stat to gold ratio you can get, with the exception of being in a top syndicate. If you're in a syndicate where the whole team does their part(equal IP across the board), you can get a 30-50k stat gain for a little over 2 vaults.
To spend a little over a vault on an LTQ to get 20-25k stat increase is pretty good when compared to store and limited items. This is an extremely good deal if you compare that ratio to what limited, case events and crate item stats used to be for the gold.
Heck, for a long time you could spend 900 gold just to get an item with 300/200 stats.

The only thing a high level player should be worried about with LTQ's and XP is leveling to the point where it will cost a lot more gold to put up good IP, but I don't think IP really drops off until you go over level 200.


Thank you. Finally, a post with some knowledge. Everything in this post is completely true from my perspective of gameplay.