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Namine33
09-24-2013, 01:21 PM
I am starting to question the purpose of Hero Strength. Currently, I am lvl 143 with 171 HS, however, since as long as I can remember, I have not been able to top 262 dmg per mob. I know for a fact I have fluctuated between 197-262 (mostly in the 202-215 range) for the last 20 levels. I have brought this up with some guildies, who, has a lower HS, but they are topping 320. Is there something I am missing when it comes to attacking mobs?
I am getting annoyed that any mob over 225 hp, I can rarely 1-shot.
(FYI, I am sitting at 2.8att/3.4def).


Thanks

Rastlin
09-24-2013, 01:30 PM
What weapon and armor does your character have? This is a very big part of it.

DragCro
09-24-2013, 01:31 PM
Lately hero weapon and armour plays a role on damage that you give to monsters.
I think depends on monster dificulty its based your hit,example if i hit a monster that is easier to kill my damage to monster is 120 lets say,if i hit monster that i can't kil with one hit my damage is in range 280 -320 lets say...
So the best investment for skills are those invested on Hero..
But don't forget weapon play a big role too

[DW] maretzky
09-24-2013, 01:42 PM
Well, with 170HS (same as you, Namine) and both w/a top possible till now (Da'ran's) I observe much wider spread. 270-370. Luckily 3/4 of hits are 300+... It's quite random but I second DragCro in what he said ^^

Namine33
09-24-2013, 02:01 PM
Currently, my weapon is Forceful Bow (89/79) and Da'ran Guardian (74/370).

Rastlin
09-24-2013, 02:04 PM
Your weapon is your problem... My weapon has 141 attack.

Namine33
09-24-2013, 02:11 PM
My last weapon was the Cupid's Bow.
What I dont understand is that 20-30 levels ago, I was still hitting for this damage. So does this mean that my Hero Strength has no bearing at all?

Voxker
09-24-2013, 02:19 PM
well im at 161 HS, with 141 weapon str and 70 str from best armor... but i range from 290-360 for my hits, i dont see a problem unless you get screwed by rng alot

Cxxxmm
09-24-2013, 02:51 PM
I asked the same question a couple of months ago - consensus was that my weapons needed to be upgraded - so always finished all the ltq's since, in addition put each skill point earned into hero strength. It was recommended not to use the map to get weapons as they are no comparison to the ltq's.

I saw a huge improvement

Still have a wimpy avatar but I see the 300's more often than not now - I am a little more than 10 lvls below you

Gweo
09-25-2013, 12:44 AM
I remember someone posted that your average attack should be something like 1.5 x Weapon attack + 0.5 x Hero strength + some other modifiers. If you increase 20 levels and put everything in hero strength you increase your average attack by 15. Not a hugh increase anymore. With the increased weapon attack hero strength gets less useful.

Namine33
09-25-2013, 04:40 AM
I remember someone posted that your average attack should be something like 1.5 x Weapon attack + 0.5 x Hero strength + some other modifiers. If you increase 20 levels and put everything in hero strength you increase your average attack by 15. Not a hugh increase anymore. With the increased weapon attack hero strength gets less useful.
What is sad though, is I can no longer 2-hit mobs in Cracks of Doom... ever since I lost Cupid's Bow as my top weapon, I have been hitting lower. I missed the LTQs that had all those 100+ weapons, but I swear, I seem weaker after my deployment now than I did before.

larrydavid
09-25-2013, 04:51 AM
My last weapon was the Cupid's Bow.
What I dont understand is that 20-30 levels ago, I was still hitting for this damage. So does this mean that my Hero Strength has no bearing at all?

Higher level mobs and usually LTQ mobs all have higher defense - effectively reducing your HS or weapon back down to crap.

sister morphine
09-25-2013, 05:04 AM
I do wonder if the mobs have been made tougher behind the scenes, and also if some other factors have been put in place without telling players.

In theory my personal attack strength should be 212 HS + 141 weapon + 74 armour (and 139 army attack if that has any bearing at all), so 427 all in. I've never yet hit the 400 mark though. Somewhere around 389 is my peak I think.

ezinap
09-25-2013, 06:58 AM
A number of players (I am one of them) has reported that the attack value of their armor is no longer adding towards the damage total. That might have happened to you as well:
171 + 89 is max 260, which fits your experience.
Max should be (of course) 171 + 89 + 74 = 334. Go tell Gree.

JPNy
09-25-2013, 02:31 PM
For my part I always could verify with my players that HS + BW + BA gives the best hitting points. 85% of this gives the average hitting points (without counting last killing hit of course). And 70% gives the worst hit strength. Taking data on sixty full hits.
I had only one situation where this "formula" didn't work, for one LLP with an HS greater than his level (level 70, HS 91). And I remembered that some discussions about HS stated that perhaps the hitting strength could be caped ... So I stopped putting skill points on HS (keeping them when I leveled up) and slowly my LLP could verify this rule again (now HS = his level) and I spend other points on other skills.
As you can gain 1.5 HS per level on average it's perhaps a mechanic to force players to spend skill points on other skills.

RandomUser
09-25-2013, 02:41 PM
BTW, with each level of mastery you achieve in a map, the mobs get 5% more HP. So you may have been 2-hitting level 1 mobs and now that's not enough to take out level 3 mobs.

Different mobs also have different max damage... sort of like built-in armor. I notice considerable swings in max damage during LTQs depending on which particular mob I was fighting.

Jnsolberg
09-25-2013, 03:26 PM
I play three games. 2 level 200 and 1 level 191. I have the best weapon and armor , with hero strength between 262 and 285. I've seen hits of as much as 424 damage, rarely below 320! 💪💪💪

Zenobia
09-25-2013, 05:41 PM
My average tends to be around Hero Strength x 0.5 + Weapon Attack + Armor Attack.

As I add skill points to my hero, the change in my average matches that. I generally log about 200 hits after adding HS or getting a better armor or weapon and compare the averages. Have been doing it since I was at HS 111 and now it's 140. +1 HS = +0.5 average hit.

JJazz
09-25-2013, 10:12 PM
Currently, my weapon is Forceful Bow (89/79) and Da'ran Guardian (74/370).

When I had that weapon at lvl 80 a couple weeks ago, I was hitting for 170-190. I got the 141 weapon from the last ltq, and now I'm hitting for 260-330. above 300's when I crit but always above 260 now :) The weapon is a huge factor.

PlayingCraze
09-26-2013, 02:21 AM
So where should we spend on skill points now? Still on hero attack?
Anyway if I delete this app then re-install will i lose all my data in the game?
This is so as KA kept on crashing on me

almarro1
09-26-2013, 04:30 AM
Some time ago I read that the average damage you do to monsters is based on this formula:
(Hero Strength+Weapon Attack+Armor Attack)*0,67
That gives you the base damage done to monsters, but it fluctuates +- 30% I think

Silent follower
09-26-2013, 06:38 AM
Some time ago I read that the average damage you do to monsters is based on this formula:
(Hero Strength+Weapon Attack+Armor Attack)*0,67
That gives you the base damage done to monsters, but it fluctuates +- 30% I think

This can't be true, as my min is this average. I've been thinking on the following formula, which has been working quite accurately for me:

Hero Strength+Weapon Attack+(Armor Attack/2) as the maximum. The average is this value -15% with a +-15% range getting to the max or the min which equals your formula.

Could you others check if your max would follow my observation?

JPNy
09-26-2013, 08:36 AM
:) It seems to have one formula per player !

Anyway this mystery part is interesting as long as we are confident in Gree...... :eek:

Gweo
09-26-2013, 08:44 AM
:) It seems to have one formula per player !

Anyway this mystery part is interesting as long as we are confident in Gree...... :eek:

Knowing Gree this may actually be true. How do we know we use the same furmula.:confused:

Aronius
09-26-2013, 10:51 AM
I focused on the guild portion and didn't get the big weapon at the end of the heroic in the earlier quest... The weapon is a huge factor... I also think the stronger the weapon the more often you actually get critical hits

Dark Angel KA
09-26-2013, 07:29 PM
I think when I fight a mob I almost do 400 damage. 300-400 usually.

E-I
09-27-2013, 08:37 AM
I focused on the guild portion and didn't get the big weapon at the end of the heroic in the earlier quest... The weapon is a huge factor... I also think the stronger the weapon the more often you actually get critical hits

There will be other weapons. There is a new best weapon every 3-4 weeks.

Skyraiders
09-27-2013, 08:44 AM
I think when I fight a mob I almost do 400 damage. 300-400 usually.

this^^^^......i do consistant damage of 350......i got my first 400 damage about a week ago......best weapon+best armor+250 HS=..a gree formula for???

Dark Angel KA
09-27-2013, 03:33 PM
this^^^^......i do consistant damage of 350......i got my first 400 damage about a week ago......best weapon+best armor+250 HS=..a gree formula for???
I may have gotten a 400 once.

plavine
10-03-2013, 09:02 AM
Weapon-102
Armor - 74
Skill points 155
My low is 221
My high is 295
I honestly do not think the new armors are being fully equipped.
My attack barely went up when I upgraded from the 44/129 armor to the 65/365
It did go up after my skill points went up by 2. There was no change when I upgraded from 65 armor to 74

Shinazueli
10-03-2013, 02:50 PM
Like any other real life formula, the best we can do is an approximation based on large data sets. The original formula seems to have changed once they made armor insane. It's probably weighted severely towards the weapon , with moderate weighting towards hero strength and minimal weight (if any) towards armor attack value. That's the most precision we can get with so many disparate factors and no access to the actual server side equations.

This being said, we know for a fact it's not a one to one correlation like it used to be. But that's irrelevant. Because even if it were Gree would just add on to the mobs health to rebalance the difficulty. So just keep putting points into HS and upgrading your weapon, the armor will come as a side effect of that. After that there's nothing else you can do to improve your damage. It only matters that you do within 25% or so of the maximum hit the strongest player can do anyway. Because that's probably where they balance the health amounts to. They limit the amount you can do because they need to make money off of you during LTQs. But even if you got the magic Gree fairy to improve your average damage by 20 points with no difference in health, you save what, 20 attacks over the course of an LTQ? Because if it was a one hit before , it doesn't matter. If it was a multiple hit boss, it May save you one attack. It only saves you large amounts of energy on the quest stages where you can Almost one shot mobs, but leave them with a sliver of health. I've done the calculations, and at almost any level of hero strength, small jumps like that (read:weapon upgrades) only save you 5-10% energy, tops. It's usually in the range of 3%. The only people who should be killing themselves are the ones who've missed the previous weapons enough that it's like a 50 point upgrade or more.

As far as skill points go; the reasoning behind the predominant recommendation [putting virtually all of your points into HS] isn't because HS is awesome for improving your damage. It's because (outside of having a reasonable amount of stamina, say 12-15) there's nothing else worthwhile to put them into. Attack and Defense are supposed to be a percentage modifier on your win/loss chance, but this once again seems to have changed when they handed out +100 attack skill bonuses like they were on clearance. They probably added in a weighting to them that makes them all but worthless.

All of these claims are just that, claims. But they are based on a wealth of data from people who thoroughly enjoy spreadsheets. YMMV.

TL;DR : just keep upgrading. It'll be ok.

Edit: and for all those who say "but I hit three (or three dozen) times and my damage went down!" - at my workplace a data set with less than 10k data points is considered "small". We define a rigorous set as one with at least 100k data points. Just for scope clarification.

Fredcole
10-03-2013, 03:43 PM
As far as skill points go; the recommendation is to put virtually all of your points into HS isn't because HS is awesome for improving your damage. It's because (outside of having a reasonable amount of stamina, say 12-15) there's nothing else worthwhile to put them into. Attack and Defense are supposed to be a percentage modifier on your win/loss chance, but this once again seems to have changed when they handed out +100 attack skill bonuses like they were on clearance. They probably added in a weighting to them that makes them all but worthless.

This is the reason of putting all points to hero strength. That and the fact that HS is the only thing that saves you gems, real life money. Others you just loose or gain some fiction gold.