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  1. #31
    Community Manager
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    Jul 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandukan View Post
    I read what you wrote and appreciate that you want to create an inviting environment for everyone. But clearly by the forum traffic your actions have accomplished quite the opposite of what you intended.

    When I trained individuals in crisis management and conflict resolution in the workplace the predominant factor that dictated implementation of any solution strategy was impact on company goal and objectives.
    Once a strategy was implemented real world testing required that we be flexible enough to course correct.

    You seem to have made a decision on how to proceed and refuse to adjust even when faced with overwhelming evidence suggesting your methods are flawed.
    We have taken the approach of less moderation before, and even recently. The thought behind doing this was that perhaps if we come down less harsh on folks, we will see them clean up their behavior naturally. We do not want to censor folks, as censorship leads to further unhappiness and frustration. However, less moderation did not work and we saw people spiral out of control. Posts filled with vitriol and hate. Long time members attacking new folks simply for having a difference of opinion. This is not ok. It is not ok in real life, and it is not ok here on the forums.

    It is possible to express frustration and grievances, have fun, and even "smack talk" one another, without bullying individuals.

  2. #32
    Verbose Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by legalious View Post
    The rules are as cut and dry as possible. Your company based strategy might work for inter-office politics but when you apply it to the general public they tend to break the rules, then those rules will be enforced. Not sure how forum Code of Conduct can apply to company goals and objectives as they tend to be another entity entirely. Sure we all strive for better communication and understanding, but that will only go as far when others will abide by those standards.

    Users got their warning and infractions but choose to not follow those rules and will end up being banned, as some users stated before that they could care less about those rules. Tread carefully.
    Why did you end your post with "tread carefully"?
    Is that supposed to be a warning that I have encroached on some boundary and should check myself?

    Conflict resolution works in just about every scenario out there.
    My company made millions utilizing these strategies not only in the work place but in schools, government agencies (including neighborhood and police departments) and group conflicts across the globe.
    The issues on this forum are not new or particularly intricate.

    I can say that you only seem to show up when there is something to enforce. How can you manage a community when you don't build a relationship with those you choose to manage?
    How are you equipped to mediate anything when you just show up and lock threads and hand out infractions?
    Always Famous......

  3. #33
    Community Manager
    Member Since
    Jul 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandukan View Post
    I can say that you only seem to show up when there is something to enforce. How can you manage a community when you don't build a relationship with those you choose to manage?
    How are you equipped to mediate anything when you just show up and lock threads and hand out infractions?
    Our Moderators have been continuously attacked and insulted, even when they are just discussing things from a player's point of view (they all still play the game). This has caused many of them to focus their interactions here solely on their Moderation duties, which is unfortunate.

  4. #34
    Prominent Poet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandukan View Post
    Why did you end your post with "tread carefully"?
    Is that supposed to be a warning that I have encroached on some boundary and should check myself?

    Conflict resolution works in just about every scenario out there.
    My company made millions utilizing these strategies not only in the work place but in schools, government agencies (including neighborhood and police departments) and group conflicts across the globe.
    The issues on this forum are not new or particularly intricate.

    I can say that you only seem to show up when there is something to enforce. How can you manage a community when you don't build a relationship with those you choose to manage?
    How are you equipped to mediate anything when you just show up and lock threads and hand out infractions?
    Frankly if a company is poorly managed is how you make a living in the real world. This isn't a crisis even in the forum world

    If a company is managed properly they eliminate cancers and folks not working towards mutual success. It's called terminations and a portion of layoffs always includes troubled employees that belong elsewhere or in another position.

    If you are referring to collapse of company crisis management well that's over the top for forum and gree

    Attrition of forum users is your concern. What type? The type that has taken over the forum versus what it was in the first 18 months of existence?

    Conflict resolution in this context would, at best, be gree moderators chatting with the perpetual troublemakers that most people would recognize. Can't reform then they leave on own accord or by gree choice.

    People always get over concerned that changes in corporate culture are doomsday scenarios. Same in this forum. If they were that draconian many would have already been banned. To date I don't think one of them has.

  5. #35
    Verbose Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine View Post
    Our Moderators have been continuously attacked and insulted, even when they are just discussing things from a player's point of view (they all still play the game). This has caused many of them to focus their interactions here solely on their Moderation duties, which is unfortunate.
    Insults are never warranted and are unfortunate. Those who partake should be blocked from the privilege of using the forum.
    Nevertheless the insults stem from frustration with the game and the lack of information and feedback. Unfortunately you are representatives of the company, albeit in a limited capacity as it pertains to game play.
    When people are frustrated they don't want to hear trite or mind boggling inaccurate responses from community managers and moderators, which too often occurs.

    What I would say is if light moderation doesn't work and heavy moderation doesn't work how about we follow the Goldie Locks rule?
    Always Famous......

  6. #36
    Community Manager
    Member Since
    Jul 2014
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    870
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandukan View Post
    Insults are never warranted and are unfortunate. Those who partake should be blocked from the privilege of using the forum.
    Nevertheless the insults stem from frustration with the game and the lack of information and feedback. Unfortunately you are representatives of the company, albeit in a limited capacity as it pertains to game play.
    When people are frustrated they don't want to hear trite or mind boggling inaccurate responses from community managers and moderators, which too often occurs.
    As I mentioned in my original post, we know and understand that much of the insults and negative behavior comes from frustration. But as I also mentioned, this does not give anyone the right to attack, insult, or bully other individuals. If people want to express their frustration with the game, that can be done in a constructive manner. If they have a concern with another individual, then that should be taken to a PM.

  7. #37
    Community Manager
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    Jul 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandukan View Post
    What I would say is if light moderation doesn't work and heavy moderation doesn't work how about we follow the Goldie Locks rule?
    No moderation is not an option. Months, maybe even years, of no moderation is what got us here.

  8. #38
    Verbose Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine View Post
    As I mentioned in my original post, we know and understand that much of the insults and negative behavior comes from frustration. But as I also mentioned, this does not give anyone the right to attack, insult, or bully other individuals. If people want to express their frustration with the game, that can be done in a constructive manner. If they have a concern with another individual, then that should be taken to a PM.
    Agreed. Insults are unacceptable.
    Always Famous......

  9. #39
    Verbose Veteran
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    MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine View Post
    No moderation is not an option. Months, maybe even years, of no moderation is what got us here.
    I was never advocating no moderation. Moderating is not all or nothing. It's a continuum.
    Goldie Locks liked her porridge not too hot or not too cold.

    I wouldn't agree that no moderation got us here. Just a few blowhards who can easily be silenced.
    This site used to be very informative and entertaining. I swear. I witnessed it.
    Always Famous......

  10. #40
    Community Manager
    Member Since
    Jul 2014
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    870
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandukan View Post
    I was never advocating no moderation. Moderating is not all or nothing. It's a continuum.
    Goldie Locks liked her porridge not too hot or not too cold.

    I wouldn't agree that no moderation got us here. Just a few blowhards who can easily be silenced.
    This site used to be very informative and entertaining. I swear. I witnessed it.
    I believe that, and I wish I had been here during those days. We have historically been very hesitant to ban, and have instead focused on Moderation and the Infraction system. What I think you may be saying is that if those individuals were removed (or quelled), then perhaps heavy moderation wouldn't be needed.

  11. #41
    Verbose Veteran Red BD's Avatar
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine View Post
    . [Frustration]... does not give anyone the right to attack, insult, or bully other individuals. If people want to express their frustration with the game, that can be done in a constructive manner. If they have a concern with another individual, then that should be taken to a PM.
    I honestly don't get it. I don't read every post, but have seen very few which I would consider "insulting," and frankly none posted by members that I would consider "bullying" or could make anyone feel "unsafe" (rationally).
    Someone called me "an idiot." I don't think I knew it until the thread had been shut down. I don't know if that was part of the reason for the lock. It didn't bother me, but what did bother me is having to spend half an hour to figure out the deal with PM (most trying to figure out how to read his response).
    Funny thing is that the very brief private exchanged raised an issue which, IMHO, went to the very core of the nature of the game. I at least would have been interested in the thoughts of other members. Had the tread been left open the conversation could have evolved for the better.
    The better parts of everything often come after a little turmoil.
    People shouldn't care what strangers they will never meet think of them. I assume there is some rationale as to why we are treated like Grade (Elementary, Primary) schoolers, but I do not think most in the Forum are near that innocent or young. (Demographical Data would be interesting, but I'ld assume privileged).

    The only posters in this Forum who bully anyone, in my opinion, are certain moderators. I feel bullied by them. It took me over a minute to write the last 2 sentences.

  12. #42
    Community Manager
    Member Since
    Jul 2014
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    870
    Quote Originally Posted by Red BD View Post
    I honestly don't get it. I don't read every post, but have seen very few which I would consider "insulting," and frankly none posted by members that I would consider "bullying" or could make anyone feel "unsafe" (rationally).
    Someone called me "an idiot." I don't think I knew it until the thread had been shut down. I don't know if that was part of the reason for the lock. It didn't bother me, but what did bother me is having to spend half an hour to figure out the deal with PM (most trying to figure out how to read his response).
    Funny thing is that the very brief private exchanged raised an issue which, IMHO, went to the very core of the nature of the game. I at least would have been interested in the thoughts of other members. Had the tread been left open the conversation could have evolved for the better.
    The better parts of everything often come after a little turmoil.
    People shouldn't care what strangers they will never meet think of them. I assume there is some rationale as to why we are treated like Grade (Elementary, Primary) schoolers, but I do not think most in the Forum are near that innocent or young. (Demographical Data would be interesting, but I'ld assume privileged).

    The only posters in this Forum who bully anyone, in my opinion, are certain moderators. I feel bullied by them. It took me over a minute to write the last 2 sentences.
    What one person feels is bullying may differ from another person. So while you may feel that there are no posts that are "bullying" others, many feel differently, including the staff and Mods. Some people have thicker skin and thus can more easily brush things off than others who are more sensitive. People are different, and thats ok. It is up to us, the Community Managers, to define what is and is not ok, and enforce that. Just because you disagree with whether or not a Moderator should close a thread, doesn't mean they are bullying you. Nor does it mean they are bullying you when they post a reminder about following the Code of Conduct.

    As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, we have had multiple people reach out to us via PM to let us know they feel uncomfortable due to the way others are treating them. There have been some who have said "oh it's the Internet, get over it" as though that excuses the behavior and means they can treat others with disrespect. This is not ok. Additionally there is a big difference between saying "you are an idiot" to someone, and having a post filled with vitriol and hateful attacks.

    We know that this forum is primarily adults, not children. This means that people should understand how to treat others with respect, understand the power of words, and understand how to interact in an appropriate way.

  13. #43
    Prominent Poet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red BD View Post
    I honestly don't get it. I don't read every post, but have seen very few which I would consider "insulting," and frankly none posted by members that I would consider "bullying" or could make anyone feel "unsafe" (rationally).
    Someone called me "an idiot." I don't think I knew it until the thread had been shut down. I don't know if that was part of the reason for the lock. It didn't bother me, but what did bother me is having to spend half an hour to figure out the deal with PM (most trying to figure out how to read his response).
    Funny thing is that the very brief private exchanged raised an issue which, IMHO, went to the very core of the nature of the game. I at least would have been interested in the thoughts of other members. Had the tread been left open the conversation could have evolved for the better.
    The better parts of everything often come after a little turmoil.
    People shouldn't care what strangers they will never meet think of them. I assume there is some rationale as to why we are treated like Grade (Elementary, Primary) schoolers, but I do not think most in the Forum are near that innocent or young. (Demographical Data would be interesting, but I'ld assume privileged).

    The only posters in this Forum who bully anyone, in my opinion, are certain moderators. I feel bullied by them. It took me over a minute to write the last 2 sentences.
    Do yourself a favor to understand perspective how how much forum has changed. Do a search for Billionaire. Take a look at what he posted and response by forum members. Hopefully the history goes back several years.

    He's an example of what this forum was. He's still in the game but doesn't bother to go to forum because of it's takeover by the a vocal minority

  14. #44
    Supreme Scholar Dipstik's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
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    8,515
    You mean the mods? I think they might be a majority soon
    Quote Originally Posted by murf View Post
    Dippy, may be a little harsh in this thread, but he's right...
    Still mad at Bostick.

    I'll be back when the moderation is reasonable. Enjoy the forum you created, Gree.

  15. #45
    Articulate Author TheJess's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2013
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    308
    Quote Originally Posted by cooch View Post
    Do yourself a favor to understand perspective how how much forum has changed. Do a search for Billionaire. Take a look at what he posted and response by forum members. Hopefully the history goes back several years.

    He's an example of what this forum was. He's still in the game but doesn't bother to go to forum because of it's takeover by the a vocal minority
    Helpful constructive forum participants, such as The Billionaire, seem to be a thing of the past in this forum. Now, if you dare to post, you are bullied almost instantly and told by over-zealous forum member that posting is an invitation to be attacked.

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